Transmission Band Tool

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Transmission Band Tool
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen - Conroe, TX on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 05:58 pm:

I bought the little transmission band tool (the u-shaped one with the attached wrench on a chain) from Langs and tried to use it last night when I loosened my bands.

However, I couldn't make it fit in the logical position....around the band ears, under the pedal bosses and over bands. There simply wasn't enough room in there to squeeze the thing in.

I watched Mitch Taylor's video where he uses the tool but there's not a good enough shot of it in place to get a good view.

Does anyone have a good photo of it in place?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel D. Dunham on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 06:32 pm:

Please look at Rich Bingham's February 15 post under "what did you do to your T today". Nice pic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 07:38 pm:

Don, it's only for keeping bands in place so you can put the hogshead back on. You have to slip it out before bolting the cover down, there is not enough clearance for the tool when the hogshead is bolted in place - but what do I know ? I've never used this tool before and didn't get back to my project today - rats !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 08:04 pm:

I just finished the bands today. Just use large nylon ties, work great. go to any size real easy. Just clip when done. Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Weaver on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 08:21 pm:

From the thread below. And a picture from it.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/725563.html?1487184542


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen - Conroe, TX on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

Thanks for the replies.

I understand how it goes on the bands in the photo above.

But in Mitch Taylor's video, he puts it on the bands while the hogshead is on and the bands are fully installed....that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Guess I should ask him in the comments section of his video.

I tried seven ways to Sunday to get the tool on like his video shows and couldn't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 09:39 pm:

That flat u-shape tool is intended to hold the bands ears together as you drop on the hogshead, but as that tool can't come out easy its best to use it differently


tight fit in there, hard to remove



So use that tool, or similar u-shape bar stock to act as third hand to hold the ears aligned, then wrap the ears with wire or with nylon wire ties. The nylon is easy to cut and pull away after you lower the hogshead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen - Conroe, TX on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 10:17 pm:

got it....thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Allen - Conroe, TX on Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 10:20 pm:

And...for what it's worth....all the necessary bolts are removed, the starter is removed, etc and that hogshead is not budging....not a bit.

Gonna have to start carefully smacking on it a bit. But smacking on 92 year old metal makes me nervous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 08:40 am:

Don -- It's probably glued in place with sealant. Try wedging something under the edges, not smacking it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Adey (The Woodlands TX) on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 08:43 am:

Don - I had the same problem - that tool just wont work. Too tight vertically when the HH is dropped in place. I used the zip tie option and that worked fine. I will warn tho - as so many mention - be careful cutting he zip tie! Mine sprang free and dropped in the well of doom! I simply could not fish it out of the cover trapezoid hole. Tried for an hour with a coat hanger - finally had to pull the HH again! The dental floss trick to loop through the nuts and washers works GREAT! You can finger the nut on right over the dental floss - then break the floss when done. I Finally got it all back together with new wooden band liners from Jim Guinn - they are awesome - gave me nice neutral and minimum peddle press for great response. What a difference! Good luck - shout if I can help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, February 17, 2017 - 07:47 pm:

For what it's worth, I finally got back to Liz to set the hogshead back on. Review of the nifty tool, it worked OK for me, probably wouldn't work on every T. I found it a little short, kind of an iffy grab on the band nearest the triple gears. It will not come out if you start cinching bolts down on the cover, but neither would the Ford approved tool, which looks a lot like the "U" clip in Dan's second photo. To the good, it's probably thinner than either one.

I see Dan's cover has an inside radius in the bottom corners of the inspection opening which my '13 aluminum cover doesn't have - that makes it reasonable to remove the tool.

?? All this talk about tying dental floss on washers and nuts leads me to believe you guys are putting them on the brake and reverse pedal shafts after the hogshead is in place ?? Why ?? I don't think there's room in my cover to allow for that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 04:53 am:

I find the u shaped clip quite useful for keeping the end of the wrench's chain from falling in the transmission. I do like the wrench, though, for making band adjustments. Its thin and angled properly for the job. I posted something about the clip years ago and apparently offended the manufacturer, who was, and may still be, a regular on here. I don't remember who it was, now. At any rate, he said it wasn't intended to be used to get the hogs head bolts all tight before removing it. I can promise you that it will be dang near impossible to get back out if you do try tightening any bolts. I just use wire now and cut it loose after I get everything situated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:35 am:

I use this tool when installing the hogshead. It keeps the pedals properly aligned for installation. All the nuts and washers are installed before you drop the hogshead in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:43 am:

I have always wondered if the clip that the Ford service manual shows being used was a Ford tool or just a suggestion of what could be used to hold the ears together.

When Ford was building the cars in the factory there must have been a lot of those clips around in the shop when production was going on.

I made something similar to Dan T's in his post that worked better for me than one that's usually sold by the vendors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:49 am:

Well, that's how the Bible shows it (nuts, washers, springs in place) and how I've always wrangled with it.

Royce, a little more detail on your pedal aligning tool please ? And - do you have any good tricks for compressing the springs? That's the toughest part for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:52 am:

Rich, if you have bands with removable ears and tries to reline them without lifting the hogshead, then you must unscrew the nuts - and the dental floss trick will help when reattaching them :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 10:32 am:

Rich you don't have to compress the springs. The trick, if you can call it that, is to not have the ty - wraps too tight on the bands. The springs just drop in place. The nuts are just a couple threads on to the shafts.



I will take some more pictures of the tool. Ralph Zaijcek had an original, I have a couple of copies made by my dad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 10:37 am:

I was wondering if anybody else was going to show a picture of bands wrapped individually. I've used bailing wire instead of zip ties (individually wrapped).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 10:52 am:

Don-
Since you are new here, I will suggest to you to loop dental floss through each of you band nuts and washers, and put another loop around the other end and put it around your finger. That way when you are fumbling to put it together and the nut slips you won't need to go fishing.



: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 11:22 am:

Royce, thank you for that info. I bought new springs, they are plenty robust, and too long for what you describe doing by at least a half inch! Of course they keep the pedal shafts from slipping into the band lugs, and there's the rub ! Manual says to pry the springs between the lugs with a screwdriver, but there's a definite limit to what you can do that way!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 11:33 am:

"That flat u-shape tool is intended to hold the bands ears together as you drop on the hogshead, but as that tool can't come out easy"

What if the "fingers" were bent up at about 45 or 60 degrees from the cross piece?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Olson on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 12:07 pm:

Ken, sounds to me like it would work!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 12:40 pm:

Rich,

When the bands were redone in Edison's North Jersey T...didn't know how long the last springs were in there as the band ears were actually loose when pedals relaxed.

Fetched new springs...said 'wow' on the difference in length...then found myself having the equivalent of a greased pig contest trying to get the springs even in!

Took the springs over to the big bench vise, screwed them shut tight, opened the vice and the spring-back seemed to be just about right, and the reinstall went easy on that! I maybe should have measured the length after vice, but didn't...

I then later did a band change on my '15...new springs from the same place...same issue...same solution!

Although there shouldn't be...maybe depends on just whose detachable ear is used?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 12:43 pm:

Grind the back two corners at a diagonal of the flat band tool so it will clear the back corners of the hogshead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 01:01 pm:

George, after a bad "dry run" yesterday, I checked the manual and read Royce's post, then measured the lug gap with the tool in place - about 1-3/4". Did what you did, "bottoming" the new springs in the vise, they came out at 2" OAL, I reckon that's about right. Gonna wrestle my greased hogshead right now, wish me luck - and thanks to all for the help and suggestions !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 03:53 pm:

That flat U tool is a bit too wide in the fingers IMO.

Service Bulletin shows a round stock u-clip, and the small 1/4" dia. is OK for ease of removal after placing the hogshead.





Easy to make clip for band lugs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 06:33 pm:

That clip works well. I wired the reverse and brake pedals to keep them still and put a shim of leather on the clutch shaft to hold it snug against the cam, held in place with electrical tape. Not as snazzy as Royce's tool but it worked and I'm grateful to him for the idea. I had been wrestling with pedals flopping all over, not fun !

With the springs at an optimal length, the cover slipped right on with minimal fussing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 06:35 pm:

The clutch pedal with leather shim under the 'lectric tape


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:11 pm:

The official Ford band tool is a 5Z-445.

5z445a

It is made from a steel stamping. The horizontal diamond to the right indicates that this one was made by Mossberg.

Here is a second view of the same tool, hanging from its special holder inside the left hand door of a KR Wilson tool box.

5z445b

The Wilson tool box was designed to hold all of the genuine Ford 5Z tools as well as all of the tooling for a KRW combination machine, a KRW transmission reaming jig, the Wilson connecting rod straightening fixture, and all the small Wilson hand tools used to repair a Model T.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 11:01 am:

Here are some photos of the tools if anyone wants to make one. You just need a piece of 1/4" steel or aluminum stock and a few old bolts plus hand tools and a tap + die set. The knurled knob is nice but you could just use a hex head bolt.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 11:03 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 11:04 am:

Thanks Royce, couldn't be simpler! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 01:28 pm:

Yes, Thank You Royce, I will be making one for my first hogs head removal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 11:02 am:

Trent, that is neat ! And you have two of 'em ! Could we get you to show us that tool cabinet ?? Looks great !

Well, final review on the new-made tool set, it almost didn't work on my early a aluminum cover (a wee bit short to hold the reverse band), probably can't be removed from a cast iron cover with the extra material in the lower corners, and last, the little wrench was handy on the brake band, but a regular box wrench works much better on reverse. Final review IMHO, give it half a star !


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