Rear axle repairs; variations of a common theme. Duane's version.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Rear axle repairs; variations of a common theme. Duane's version.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 01:17 am:

Remember, there is 5-7 miles put on this rear axle just last fall after being worked on in the 70's or 80's... I had to put gear oil in the darn thing as it hadn't been done yet.
It's truly too bad they didn't have the resources we do today. The money spent back then on this rear axle and to what gain? Nill.
I was expecting the worst yet hoping for FAR better.

This thread is for the ones that haven't yet opened up and read the safety/maintenance packet for their new Ford rear axle. :-/
Please, IF you haven't torn your rear axle down yet, do it. We all know the stories of bad things happening...

wheel
Both wheels look the same. I had about .030" end play in the axle shaft/carrier set when I wiggled it back and forth tonight.

axle
Babbitt soup.

axle 2
Chunky soup.

axle 13
Look at the pretty colors.

axle 16
Something's missing yet maybe the carrier is salvageable as the thrust pins are in place but need replacement.

driveshaft 21
3/16" end play noted thus far on the drive-shaft. Crap picture but can you see the cotter? Oh that poor pinion.


Those inner bearings do not slide outward as the axle mid-section is too large. They must've pressed off the gears, slid on the bearings and then replaced the gears. ??? I was saddened to see those bearings in there.
Were the axle shafts from the 70's - 80's any good? Way back in my head says "They're too brittle"... ???

I sure ain't trying to out-do any current axle threads but trying to add to the differences we can find in the rear axles whether untouched or reworked.
I have not looked at the outer bearing areas yet. Ugh. I expect the same.

Look at all the faux pas' here. How many do you see? I found a bunch.

My collection of hundred dollar bills is gonna take a hit but IF I do MY job correctly, it's done for perhaps another hundred and a whole lot safer during that time.
I saw this project coming thanks to people like you. That's a good thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 02:55 am:

I had to re read the section about the inner bearings. I have said that before, the solid roller bearings DO NOT slide down ALL axles. I have gone thru a couple of rear ends that I would have used them for the inner but could not install them over the axle. Now that I have the lathe I would chuck them up and take a clean up cut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 05:58 am:

Duane, BUMMER! Maybe I better open mine up and check it out??? I kid. What a mess. Grat pics. How is ring gear wired? Thats a good lesson for those wondering about the condition of their rear axle. It will be on the road in no time .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 06:00 am:

I see the ring gear now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 07:05 am:

Duane,

Looks like fun. I hope you didn't get your hands dirty. Nothing a little time, lots of money, and a beverage or two can't fix. Did you have that grandson of yours 'wrestle' it out for you?
Let me know if you need any parts or help. I have some of the tools you may not have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 02:10 pm:

Looks like you cracked open a rotten there buddy!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Thursday, February 16, 2017 - 11:31 pm:

Yeah Dallas, I got Zonked! (Let's Make A Deal) :-) See the ring gear? Not near as bad as your old one but still yuk.
Wiring job ain't bad. It WILL look like yours thanks to you and Ed Fuller and his wiring thread. Thanks Ed!

Andy, you know me well... I got the equivalent of a couple drops of oil on my fingers so I washed my hands and my rubbery-ish "body guard safety gear" gloves in the bathroom sink when I was done last night and layed the gloves on a couple of heat vents. Surgical gloves from here on out. :-)
The buddy Keith used to smart off about me wearing "hand panties" (gloves) so much. Now he does too. I'm a real trendsetter I tell ya! Duane rolls his eyes...
Grandson? Nah, but I can't wait until the 4 grandsons are old enough to be of some help! Hah! The eldest grand, a nine year old girl takes to the T like a duck to water. She's a great Crappy T driver already!
The dog and I got it pulled out. The dog was actually no help at all but she sure liked it when I layed down on the floor with her to pull those 2 lower U-joint globe bolts. Getting down there and back up again took the most time of the whole project! ;-) The cat (she's goofy) is even LESS help, she's a bother out there, about the same as a grandson right now but she is a "mouse killing machine". She leaves them all over the yard! :-)
I'll be in touch real soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 08:42 pm:

Checked the axle shafts.
These axle shafts look fair although it appears to me that these were freakin’ cranked out and if one got thru that was a bit “out” of tolerance, it still went to assembly.
The book says; "The bearing surfaces should measure 1.062 inch. One or two thousands wear is acceptable." OK, that's the guide. :-)

RH shaft.
1.135-40“ Mid-shaft random size. Too large for the bearings to pass by. Mark nailed it.
1.059“ Inside bearing surface.
1.059" Original inside machined surface (just to the outside of the bearing surface).
A bit small but I say it's factory and you guys aren't foolin' when it's said that the inside sees little wear.

1.053-55" Outboard bearing surface.
1-053-55" Outer seal surface.
1.065-67" Original outer machined surface (just to the inside of the bearing surface). Large!
Junk shaft but interesting the inside and outside were somewhat different.

LH shaft.
1.098-108" Mid-shaft random size. Similarish to the RH.
1.063" Inside bearing surface.
1.063" Original inside machined surface (just to the outside of the bearing surface).

1.059" Outboard bearing surface.
1.060-61" Outer seal surface.
1.060-62" Original outer machined surface (just to the inside of the bearing surface).
Junk? I do need to re-measure the entire bearing surface more carefully.


These pics are for Mark.
shaft

axle

I wouldn't even think of using this on my Crappy T. His prob'ly looks the same.
ring

Off to recheck the spider gears and ask a question if the bearing tolerances are within specs.
I suspect the spider and diff. housings are junk. I'll see if I can manage to get a couple decent pics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 08:53 pm:

The LH shaft seems fine. How are the threads & the keyway? Show pics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 08:54 pm:

Hey, I have a slightly used ring and pinion set . FREE! A beat up bolted together U joint . FREE! With my parts and yours, we have a perfect pile of junk?
Had mine out today and rear is quiet as a mouse. Yours is next.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

Ford changed the type of steel used in rear axle shafts around 1925. The original specification was AAX steel, which is a Vanadium steel alloy. According to the Reminisces of John Wandersee, Ford's metallurgist during the Model T era, Vanadium steel is very tough, but bends rather easily, and even the best vanadium steel will fatigue and break if flexed enough over time (see the discussions on crankshaft breakage). By 1924 rear axle breakage at the hub was becoming quite a problem.

The solution, according to Wandersee, was to us a carbon steel properly heat treated. The replacement steel was designated Type EE steel. By the end of Model T production, almost all the steel in the driveline from the crankshaft back was changed from AAX to EE.

Ford had a way of designating which rear axle shafts were made from EE steel. The thing to look for is the name "Ford" in script stamped into the bottom of the keyway. If it is there, the axle was made from EE steel. If not, it is made from AAX steel, and more likely prone to breakage.

Whenever I am rebuilding a rear end, I almost always insist on using new axle shafts, which are of even better quality steel than EE. If an axle shaft is marked as being EE steel, and the bearing surfaces show no more than .002" wear, and the taper is in very good condition, then I may use it in a rebuild. If not, it goes into the recycling pile.

Rear axle breakage in Model Ts today using original axles is fairly common. It is exacerbated if the housings are not straight and true. I figure that rear axle shafts, like steering gear assemblies and wheels, are mission critical parts. If one of those parts breaks while you are on the road, you will have a bad day.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 10:09 pm:

Trent; great information.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 10:37 pm:

Keyways coming up. Threads are fair on both. Let me look at the lefthander.

Threads-LH. Fair. No folding over noted but slightly tapered. The nut was not reaching down in the grooves.

threads

threads 78

threads 79


LH. This is the worst with some pushing on the left of the keyway.
keyway

RH. This one is pretty nice. Too bad the shaft is crap.

keyway RH

Trent, duely noted and very interesting. No FORD script to be found in the keyways but have seen pics and didn't know.
Man, you guys knock me over with the proverbial feather!

Dallas, I want you to be here when I crack open the rear axle on my Crappy T! We can both throw up!
Quiet as a mouse? Yeehaw! I'm glad!
Ignacio's next before me then there's Thom Coffey, Jonathon and Tom D. No race at all but a hallelujah and a badge like Ignacio suggests. :-)

(Message edited by Duey_C on February 18, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, February 18, 2017 - 11:18 pm:

Jerry, you made me scramble to post pics. I'm glad you did. I had keyway pics from last night but never thought of clicking the threads.

Trent, have you found any mention of EU steel? We have a '25 engine that has an EU crank...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 07:46 am:

Duey,

Are all your bearing of the solid steel roller type? If so, throw them in the garbage, hang them on the wall, give them away as gag gifts, but don't reuse them. Find good Ford originals, just ask me if you don't have any. Most original axle are toast. Like Trent, 99% of the rear axle I build for others I use new axles. One summer we bought 40 rear axles from a fellow and tore each and everyone down. I found one useable axle out of the entire pile.

If you need a badge, wipe your greasy hands on your shirt and then put it in the laundry room, your wife will surely give you a badge!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 08:27 am:

Duane, both my axles had ford stamp in keyway. My badge is the smile on my face while driving it now!
Ran like crap yesterday. Playing with plug gap and I installed new timer harness. Cleaned timer and its better but I think its carb issue. All of you rebuilding axles will have the same badge soon.
Drive safe and often


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 10:31 am:

Agreed.
New axle shafts for me. Kind of figured it would go that way anyhow.
A good replacement differential carrier and spider set. I'll show a pic or two of what I found. You'll get a kick out of it.
New axle shaft gears, keys and lock rings.
A big yes to original Hyatt's. I was saddened to see those replacements in there.
Drive-shaft comes apart today and prob'ly some sample mining in the pile of axles I have.

Look at this poor thing. Those are not water droplets. Punch marks all over. No-go.

carrier and spider

Poor little bugger. The worst spots. No-go.

spider gear


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 12:12 pm:

Wow, never seen that before. Another differential that is probably scrap. Luckily you can get good used ones for very little money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 02:09 pm:

By gum, and you've had your hands on just a few rear axles Royce. :-) Yep, the whole setup will get put back together and stashed in a corner.

Pulled the drive shaft out and things were actually looking really good!
Drive shaft front (2581) bushing surface is .998" and pretty. Nice!
Pinion rollers are .560-62". Not bad at all!
Inner bearing sleeve outer surface measured all around at 1.2495" and looks pretty nice. Yes!
The key way is perfect, the threads and the nut are beautiful. Can you see the factory file marks around the key way?

Until...

sleeve

The crack that's starting wouldn't show up in my pics until I took a pic of the key way. Above the key way, to the left and running left out of the picture is the crack in the sleeve.
That sealed the deal for a new style pinion bearing kit from John or Glen.

Hehehe, maybe my axle housings are both bent too! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 06:46 pm:

Those are high quality photos os some very poor looking parts. Why would they punch that? Trying to tighten things up? Glad we have years of experience looking over our shoulder. WAIT!!! That pi$$ed me off when I was younger. Funny I enjoy it now. Great pics Duane.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 09:13 pm:

Duey,

If you need any spiders, or differential cases let me know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 12:35 am:

Heheheh! Dallas, high quality pics verses low quality parts. Now that's funny! True.
Ya, they were trying to tighten it up. A nice period fix but done in the wrong period! ;-)
Hahaha! Eyes over my shoulder still pi$$@s me off too! I lost my last job for that kind of foolishness and thankfully so! Yeah baby! I wore a target on my back for two years!:-)

Here, on this site? Hallelujah and thank heavens for these eyes on our backs! Oh wait, that's why we post pics... To question and answer. :-)
back

WAIT! Did you get your RPU running better? I CANNOT STAND IT when an engine isn't picking them off perfectly. This Tin Cup T is too quiet, it has a proper muffler and I can't hear anything when out on the road. Ol' Crappy '24 T has a 2-1/2" drive shaft tubed exhaust and I can hear that old bugger whenever!
I'm still laughing over your first line!

Once again Andy, you know me... Ahhhh, that's good news. Yes, I need a good case, spider and gears. NEW axle shafts, axle gears, keys, lock rings, thrusters and washers, shims, gaskets, 3.63/1 gear set!, thrust plate pins and much more... :-) I sure ain't got the list all ready yet. :-) Gimme a couple days. ;-)
Hahaha! Yep, I have four of those terrible plain shaft roller bearings. Good for paper weights when/IF I clean them up... Nah, I'll bag them and put them away for nill.
They're heavy!
Oh yeah, I need 4 Hyatt bearings and new BQ sleeves! :-)
I'll be in touch shortly. :-)

OH! The thrust bearing and its parts were perfect! True.

On a serious note; I should post a pic of "things one shouldn't do to a RH axle housing". The right hand inner bearing sleeve is upside down as I see it. I haven't wrestled the rest of the bearings and sleeves out yet.
Fun stuff but with a taste of dire seriousness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 05:38 am:

I don't know why anyone takes a center punch to try to tighten up a loose fit. It works fine, for a short while, then the punch marks just beat down to where the part was in the first place. I've seen it many, many times over the last fifty plus years that I have been around things mechanical. The only way that will work, is if something else is added to take up the slack, such as red Loctite, or something similar. I've seen it too many times. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 06:03 am:

That funny Duane, I marked all the races as I removed the as not to install backward. I got new ones from Andy and tried to install them like they came out. Couldnt do it . Someone had posted that the V should point in direction of rotation . Turns out they had one in backward on mine to.
The RPU is fouling plugs bad . Tried 28 and 35 gap on plugs. Rebuilt coils from Andy, new timer harness, cleaned timer. Going to do a compression test but I suspect that its the carb. It ran so well last year it cant be much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 08:04 pm:

Are you ready for your badge yet Duane?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 09:31 pm:

Hahaha! Dallas, you made my day!
Parts list has been typed, emailed, received, gone over, questioned on a couple points and I'll have a pile of parts in a few days to go get. :-)
It's funny myself or someone else didn't think of that famous Blazing Saddles line "We don't need no stinking badges..." ;-) I still think it's a cute idea. A little tiny pin in the shape of a T axle...
Shoot, I'm taking a couple days off! Still have to wrestle the sleeves out and clean the housings. That'll be cake.
Timing is perfect tho. Can model T's cause ulcers? I wouldn't "think" so... I'll blame it on the hell I haven't even caught yet!

Update on your pickup yet? Float? Mix?
Compression? Bah. Don't get me started again on that touchy subject. Think Brylcreem. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 09:45 pm:

Wife called today. Tahoe wont start. 1 1/2 hours from home. Took a buddys flat bed wrecker and saved the day. Afternoon off work and quality time with wife? Ya Im laughing to. Have not touched swamp donkey since Sunday. Hope your parts show up and all is well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 12:18 pm:

The book suggests dropping in drill shavings to keep the thrust washer pin at the proper height if the pin hole is too deep.
Hehehe, mine has one included from the factory or the last time the pins were out. :-) I'm saying factory as it's discolored. ;-)
See the shiny bit inside the hole? Pre-installed shaving cushion.

shaving

I'm stood there drilling away at the first pin (my first ever), I reach bottom and the pin spins out. Pull the drill and voila! The pin comes with the drill.
The one across the hall? I just grabbed it with my little Vise Grip and pulled it out. Sweet!
We'll see IF I'm that lucky on the other housing's pins... :-/

"Afternoon off work and quality time with wife? Ya Im laughing to." Dallas, we all have our crosses to bear. Hehehehe.
Life is just too funny.
After the fact, of course. :-) Fuel pump?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 01:26 pm:

Its my lucky day duane. Starter and its 65 degrees out with no rain. Back up and running. Your pins are pretty loose? I had to get punchy with mine to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 04:32 pm:

Driveshaft tube: I don't think I'll be using the tube I have and I'll show why. Please correct me if I'm off.

This is just too much for me. Blech. A sample rusty-crusty tube I've been sitting on forever has a far nicer ball/globe.
ball

Rivets? What rivets? They're all in there but only the top one still has a round head, the other three are smashed flat.
Even tho it's wrecked inside, a 5/8" impact socket barely fit in there to push the bushing out.
This was tough to photograph.
We can just see the rivets and the very small blip of light in the top (the Planet Pluto) is the nice round head of that top rivet.
rivets

The Nov./Dec. Vintage Ford has been a nice refresher for me with the 1989 rear axle article from Mr McCalley. It also raised a question for me.
Ok, here's the other end of that tube that I ain't gonna use. When did the outside flange/lip around the outside disappear?
I was thinking perhaps with the open spool but a pic of Bruce's shows a flanged tube mated to an open spool. Perhaps an overlap of parts.
lipless


The rusty/crusty tube mentioned above with the flange.
lipped/flanged

I have a candidate or two down in the woods with said flange that'll get removed and checked out but it's easier to find flange-less tubes in my world.
What else should a person look for when looking for another tube candidate?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kurt Baltrusch on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 07:33 pm:

Some axle key ways have "Ford X" stamped in them. Anyone know what the "X" denotes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, February 27, 2017 - 03:46 pm:

Kurt, hopefully someone will chime in on the "X". :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 12:33 pm:

Hey! Hey! A little bird said you got some parts. Progress report hasnt been filed here yet. Just wondering!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 08:38 pm:

Duey, as far as I recall, either type of tube will bolt to the open or closed spool. The problem comes when mating a closed spool to the rear axle. A closed spool has the same shoulder on the back of the spool as the shaft tube has. This requires the axle housings to be machined to accept that shoulder. Open spools will fit because they do not have the shoulder at the back.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 09:29 pm:

The drive shaft tubes with the flange were used with the closed drive shaft spools.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 10:09 am:

How the heck did you know about this Dallas? :-) You bet I got some parts!
Now if I can get away from the wife's brand new 6-1/2 horse wood chipper long enough to clean up the diff carrier, torque tube and axle bearings.
Cleaning up brush in the woods in March? WTH? We need more snow!

Allan and Royce, thank you both for the confirmations! This closed spool axle had the drive shaft tube replaced at some time with an open spool and flangeless tube, the primed one above.
I'm guessing the oil fill plug height changed approximately along with the spools and flanges-or lack of. Am I close?
That new closed spool fits like a glove on the "shouldered" axle housings. A REALLY tight glove right now. A little clean up coming and voila!
This new closed spool will also need a little bit o' help. One "ding" on the inside of the outer flange. It's been dropped and it got missed.
:-) More to come.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 11:27 pm:

If anyone reads this mindless babble;
Bits perhaps worth noting: The question was raised again just lately about the diameter of a socket or some-such to drive out the original Babbitt front drive shaft bushing. I didn't have an exact answer so I punted with a "5/8 impact socket works for me" Turns out again that this old socket is the one to use for me and my drive shaft tubes. One a flangeless and the other is a flanged tube with good rivets.
Today I tried to get a foreign, 3/8 drive 13/16 deep well socket down past the rivets. No-go. Its diameter is 1.097", so close to going in but I wasn't going to force it... Strange as there seems to be more room in there. Dallas actually tipped this off for me.
Then I tried that old impact socket again. No problem, it passed the rivets to the bushing. Its diameter is 1.065", it takes good hard swats to get the bushing moving. YMMV.
I even resorted to taking a shop paper towel, wrapping it around the "driver" shaft so it stayed in the middle of the tube without holding it so I could SWAT! :-)

Next up: Closed spool flanges and the axle housings. OR Mixing closed and open spooled drive shaft tubes, spools and axles. New stuff for me but it fell into my lap just this way.
Thank you Allan and Royce for this!
One can mix and match early black era and later spools and axles but it can only be done one way. Remember Henry's way of replacing parts?
One can mate later flangeless drive shaft tubes to earlier flanged closed spools. OK.
Also, one can mate flangeless open spools to earlier axle housings that have the raised shoulder for the closed spool. OK
But should we? The studs or later bolts CAN hold it all together quiet perfectly.
IF reading this, please correct me if I'm off! Please.
Gee, I wonder what parts I had on hand for Crappy Lizzhe's tube, spool and axle assembly? I don't recall.

spool
I'm giving the new closed spool a fixer-upper and a file job so all the flanges fit together. The sharpened END of a file is the coolest thing for shaving all kinds of iron bits. Yes, I took it to the grinder for a sharpening.
This particular spool has been dropped several times in its life and it was missed in the refurbishing process. That's OK, I'm NOT bellyaching nor accusing anyone.
We can see the scratches I've made in the bottom of the machined surface. The bottom of that machined surface is the surface that contacts the axle housing's "shoulder" so the scratches are not detrimental to the fit so long as I can keep the scratches out there by the flange. If you look closely, you can see where the spool has been dropped hard and what I'm doing is shaving the squash marks outward so there is no interference between the spool and the outer flange/shoulder on the axle.
I don't wish to hammer the spool home on the axle housings. No.
Note; I've filed the top rim of the flange as I do not want anything in the way of the two parts mating correctly.
The top of the flange is not extremely important as the top rim height on a machined surface is .120" tall.
Or is it? I find I have .030" to play with... Check the next pic.

axle shoulder
Here's where the flanged spool really fits! The later axle housings do not have this shoulder as far as I know.
This shoulder's height is .150" so like I claim above I have .030" to play with here.
Yet, I do need to take the file to that mating surface of the two axle housings again. The 6 threaded stud holes had the raised edges that are famous of threading a hole without countersinking the hole before threading. The fella I work with is extreme about countersinking a hole BEFORE threading and he's correct but in our case it was a step that could be eliminated to save time. Slam it together.

You getting this? Our machined surfaces need to fit correctly for perfection IF (IF!) the surfaces were done correctly at the factory.
Or we can clean them up with a lathe
Anal about fit and finish? Yep. Get rid of the dings that happen over a hundred years if you can.
Even if we're playing with flangeless open spooled torque tubes, spools and axle housings? Yep.

They used to say If you wanted a job on the Mercedes factory floor, you spent 6 months at the bench with a file, a piece of steel and a vise.
I ain't made it yet but I'm trying.
Being anal about perfection isn't really perfection but it is a step towards it.
I like it clean, close and almost perfect.
I type WAY too much. My hands could not handle any more holding/filing/scraping of 100 year old parts so I type.
Thank you to this forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 12:55 am:

Duey, the bruising around the flange at the rear of the spool is more likely to be the result of a previous 'mechanic' driving a screwdriver between the spool and the diff housing to get them apart. It's easy when the diff halves are loosened off.

Seen all that before.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 05:23 pm:

Duane, I bet your wifes brush chipper will eat one of those old axle shafts! If not, at least you will be able to work on the T! Just trying to help you find more time. Plus you wont want to be around her after that so may as well be in garage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 07:31 pm:

Allan, thank you for mentioning that. You're quite right. It seems a little wiggle room (slightly loose bolts) is the best thing coming apart AND going back together. I personally believe some of the previous mechanics used axes to get it apart. Yuck.
I've been farting around with the flanges betwixt the spool and the housing assembly for an hour plus and I've a ways to go yet.
I think I have it and then it smacks me in the face with a dose of reality. It don't fit yet. Patience is virtue.
Another ten minutes of this and I think I'm heading up to my work and see if the lathe will run it true so I can true up the inside of the flange on the spool. Man oh man, I'll bet the later axles are a dream to work on... Hint hint Dallas. ;-)

Dallas, Now that's funny!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rick howerton on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 12:46 am:

My Dad told me years ago. With out oil in the rear end. It won`t last a block. And you drove it how far? And you didn`t hear that rear end halling. No oil sure dose a lot of damage. you spider gear shafts, someone did that to take up the slack between the shaft end an the housing on all three pins gears. What I see is two housings that need work, and two axles rest junk. Go to the nearest swap meet , you might find one for less than $100 bill. and tear it apart , its got be better than what you got


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 01:19 am:

Unless Mr. Murphy is involved in the swap meet axle!!
Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't!
(Almond Joy has nuts, Mound's don't)
Yeah too much TV as a child!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 01:15 am:

Hehehe! Rick, re-read my very first line way up on top. "I had to put gear oil in the darn thing as it hadn't been done yet." THEN I drove those 5-7 miles. :-)
Only one axle passed muster. The new and good used parts are out in the shed waiting for me.

Not necessarily too much TV David. :-) Your mind pays attention to those little bits and stores them for later use if they fit into your internal dialog.
Just remember, I really have no clue what I'm babbling about. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 02:31 am:

Duey, WHO mentioned that voice I hear?? Nobody else seems to hear it, so I don't talk about it. . . . . . :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 01:50 am:

David, I are not alone I see. (Yes, I spelled it the way I thunk it) My internal dialogue usually interferes with the other dialog in my brain... And then oh crap, what was I gonna go get/do?
Oops, "the other dialog"? How many are up there?

Ignore this perhaps as it's very long winded.
I've been blessed to show a few oddities found in a T rear axle on this "Variations..." thread. I perhaps could've shown more along with my own FUBAR's...
Maybe later.
5 of the 6 thrust washer pins are in and I had to SWAT(!) them all down with a bigger hammer & punch into their places to get them deep enough. I like!
One axle housing has a damaged pin hole yet. It was hand drilled and wow is it messed up! I need some epoxy or J-B to fill the other hole. What is that other epoxy?
All of my steel thrust washers are just a trifle convexed/concaved. They vary ever so slightly. Ya know when you put a washer down and it tilts a bit if your fingers wiggle it, you tip it over and it sits "flat" on its surface. Nature of the beast I think. Once again, not bellyaching nor accusing anyone. :-)
The devil's in the details and details are damn hard to keep plus my housings are at the verge of being junk.

Bah. The differential carrier and axles wiggle too much for you whilst you sit and spin in the left housing looking to measure back-lash with the drive shaft assembly?
Add the outside Hyatt, keep it up in place with a dust cover and try again. Much more stable. Wrong?
Thank the heavens for our vendors... Buying NEW parts for a hundred year old automobile. WTH?!! That's cool and glad to have the parts!
IF reading this babble read below.
The other forum member is un-named but if he dares say, I'll gladly say yep, that's him. :-)
Thank you!

Unintended Consequences!
You ever have one of those days?
Out of the blue another forum member happened to text me Saturday morning while I was reading here asking if I'm still making headway on this axle repair. I told him yep but having an issue with a part (that needed some machine work) that is holding up that end of progress.
I really wasn't dead in the water yet and thought I wasn't in a rut as far as I could see but I was actually wallowing in a rut over a small amount of indecision on my part.
I was sat out here in this chair and a half hour later I said to myself "Duane, just take that '28 Chevy crank shaft out of the lathe, change the faceplate out for one of the chucks and get this fixed."

(Yes, a 1928 Chevrolet crank shaft. They are some tough customers if they're bent and I think they all are. It's standing on the bench now. It's out .120" or so and these Chevy cranks refuse to be straightened by mere bending.
It's a small part of a LONG TERM twin '28 Chevrolet speedster project built on Ford frames etc. I see both sides of that isle.)
:-)

The 3 jaw is junk so I chose the old 4 jaw, put it on, chucked the part up and centered it within a very few thousands and checked axial? run-out. VERY VERY close!

Changed man. I moved the skid loader out of its hole and got to work. Woke up the lathe that has been sitting for 8 years (so says my son). I think it's longer.
That 75 pound half-horse brush type 220V AC motor was NOT pleased to wake and I had to retrain myself on how to make it all GO as it's a convoluted mess but cool as SHXT and the whole building shakes a little when it's running. I had already ground an old HSSteel bit to use... How strange? A flattish and chatter inducing tool. Just my style.

Hah! Today I was in there re-working my front drive shaft bushing driver as I didn't get the driver quite right the first time (DUH), my wife passes by and says "It's good to see you back out here." True. She was right and it did feel good. I was reworking a used steering (fifth wheel) spindle that was on an airport baggage cart at one time made of stress-proof steel.
All of these sub assemblies are getting heavier.
I don't like TV but it's Sunday night (I watch PBS Sunday nights) and a Roy Orbison concert shot in black and white 30 years ago and now remastered/edited (Roy Orbison: Black and White Night 30) was playing on PBS and just got done. Made for a great background/jam session! I am missing my Masterpiece tho.

Pictures? Ugh.
Facing the bushing face/lip thickness down to .093" So simple. Thanks!
bushing facing

That old bushing driver. Works great now!
bushing driver

Bushing driver in place, Like the color code? Black for chassis. Medium Garnet for the body...
driver

I got the clearance right. Pin slips right in. .oo1"_.005"
I got the clearance right

I'm there
Need to install the shim under the ring gear and try again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 06:22 am:

Finish line is right around the corner. Down hill side for sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, March 26, 2017 - 10:30 pm:

So I ask myself: Do I post? Umm............. Yes.
Well Duane, let's attack this from another angle then.
I've been studying the rear axle threads for weeks and weeks along with working on my own axle. It's amazing how much one needs to read AND absorb!
In a jovial mood today, I went out to put the two halves together, with all parts included without the driveshaft right now... That was to come later to recheck gear lash and contact pattern.
And what I found? Didn't need no driveshaft to have fun with this.
I have two housings which should be straightened or melted down.
A set of axles and carrier that spin to no end within the axle housings after I tighten the housing bolts. Wha?
Worthy of my very accidental notion of this variations thread.
this

slop

I find .020-.022 "slop" (end play).
All new washers/shims/pins are in there and why not? This axle repair has had it's share of foibles.
:-) Why not?
:-)
Does make me laugh.


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