I've got a broken nose and my teeth are all messed up

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: I've got a broken nose and my teeth are all messed up
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 01:41 pm:

The aluminum nose piece on the starter broke and the teeth on the ring gear are ugly and I'm going to use the crank for awhile. It's amazing how a bright, happy day can suddenly turn so ugly. I hope my ex-wife loses a tooth today!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 02:00 pm:

How did that happen? defect in the starter or did the mounting bolts back off. Well it looks like the mag ring came out unscathed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 02:05 pm:

All my T starters have steel there. Where did you find an aluminum one?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 02:14 pm:

G.R. You're right on with the mag ring. This is a 12 volt aftermarket starter. I just ordered a couple block off plates from Langs to replace the starter until next fall. Then the motor/transmission comes out and gets a good going over. I'll be going to a 6 volt starter when I get around to replacing this one. I'll leave the lights and charging system at 12 volts but put an extra long cable from the starter switch to the starter. Based on what I'm reading in the forum the added length provides enough resistance to lower the current fed to the starter and protects it from damage. Though I've also read a 6 volt starter has no problem handling 12 volts. I still figure it's better to be safe than sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 02:17 pm:

Royce, it was on the car when I bought it. I was told someone was altering 12 volt starters to work on the Model Ts. They were apparently using aluminum as part of the conversion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 02:26 pm:

I think that this issue has been reported on here a couple of times about this conversion. Your best bet if you do want to go with 12 volts is to use the original starter and get the winding converted to 12 volts.
Bummer way to start your day! :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 03:11 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/576669.html?1444079433


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 03:15 pm:

Heres the culprit i believe, a quick search shows many identical failures like this in previous posts.
http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_model_t/model-t-ford-starter-motor-12-volt-mod ern-remanufactured-delco-remy-starter.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 03:15 pm:

Might be time for a recall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lonnie Smith Baxter MN on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 09:31 pm:

I have a busted one just like it in my shop. Aluminum 12 volt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 10:35 pm:

I think it's a bit of a status symbol to have a broken starter laying around in your shop. I'm going to mount mine on a piece of finished hardwood and put a little brass plaque on it with the date. Maybe I'll hang it above the fireplace mantle. Right now I feel so proud. I feel honored to be a member of the broken starter group. Maybe we could start a Facebook page.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 10:53 pm:

Just another case of craftsmanship attempting to pass for engineering. The picture of the starter looks impressive and they use the Delco Remy name to further give proof of the idea but Delco didn't have anything to do with this retrofit methinks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 10:53 pm:

I've not seen any aluminum parts on an original T starter. Sounds strange to me. However, there is no reason to be using a 12 volt battery on a Model T starter anyhow! Six volts does the job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 11:03 pm:

Mike, i feel your pain because i believe i may have one of these starters also. The worst part is that it works just fine, but after seeing all these failures, who wants to take that chance. Another repop that clearly is crap!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Sunday, February 19, 2017 - 11:08 pm:

BTW mine is the 6v. version, but it still has me concerned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 12:17 am:

Mike,....I have to say,....you get my "award" for an attention-getting title! Almost expected to read about blood, guts & gore, but alas,.....just a broken starter! (:^)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 03:15 pm:

Well Harold, that happened once too, but it's a story from my childhood I prefer to keep to myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 03:27 pm:

This is not a repop of an original part, it's modern conversion made using a delco starter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 04:58 pm:

Unfortunately, they didn't re-engineer the part for being made of aluminum, so it fails.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 07:56 pm:

David, I'm inclined to agree with you. Especially considering the number that have failed over time. That much shaft length, and the shaft running inside a copper bushing with only a few thousands clearance might require a little more robust material. And assuming a metallurgist was no where around during the time the type of aluminum was specified (my assumption and completely without merit) causes a person to think it might have been designed for failure. Also, there seems to be a very limited opportunity for optional material thickness around the bushing. Any flex in the shaft, while running inside the bushing might have fatigued the cross-section of the aluminum casting to the point of failure.

The previous owner of my speedster was a little enamored with the idea of switching over to 12 volts. His workmanship while putting it all together was very well done. However the person converting the 12 volt Delco starters hadn't been made aware of any failures by that time (4-5 years ago).

The starter always had a "rattle" to it when disengaging the bendix from the ring gear. I had a feeling I was going to have an issue at some point but I was too lazy to ever peek in there. And therefore drove it to failure. So, I'm as much to blame as the starters designer and therefore have responsibility for covering the cost of repair.

I was told the fella that builds the starters had a lifetime warranty on them but, unless he's made improvements on his design I wouldn't consider putting one of his starters back in.

Instead, I've got a couple "good" functioning six volt starters just sitting around in the shop. Next Fall I'll pull the engine out of the speedster, checkout some bearing clearances in the motor and perform some preventative checks in the transmission, perhaps some new bands and change the ring gear on the flywheel.

Then I'll go to one of the 6 volt starters, drop the voltage on the 12 volt battery to the starter to 6 volts and put it all back together.

Hopefully the guy converting the Delco starters for use on the Model T's will take a look at some alternative aluminum alloy choices and implement some changes. Also, if Mac is selling these converted 12 volt starters, I hope they're made aware of the problem and take steps to evaluate their inventory.

This seems to be a case where more and bigger may not be better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 08:25 pm:

My new aluminum snout 12v. starter is still on the shelf after some 6 + years now - never got around to installing it in my Racer due to the fact it starts real easy ! Might just stay there !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, February 20, 2017 - 09:48 pm:

I think Becker senior built these 12 volt starters. Some have held up well, while others have suffered a broken snout.


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