Five wheels de-greased with kerosene, Citistripped and pressure washed twice. This is a newer set with much better wood spokes than my previous set. The Citristrip took off a lot of the paint but there is some paint hanging on and it didn't work as well on the varnish. There is a fair amount of varnish left to sand off. One wheel in the front of the picture is wire wheeled clean with a drill and the spokes are sanded. Total time for wire wheeling with a drill and sanding the spokes for one wheel: 3 hours. I think I am going to try a Corner Cat sander or something to speed things up on the sanding. Otherwise I am in for 12 more hours to get the other 4 wheels in the picture done.
Here are the freshly blasted and galvanized rims with new tires mounted.
Which tires are you using?
It IS a slow process, but it's a great feeling of accomplishment when you're done!
I would think that metal scrapers, used by wood workers would work on the spokes.
Best/ easiest/ fastest for spokes is a belt sander belt cut into long strips. About 1" wide. Mounted solidly in a Work Mate if you have one.
Any opinion on gloss black Valspar all in one paint/primer for wood and metal? This would make it considerably easier to paint this. Practically no taping or masking necessary. One step and your done. Durability as good as Rust oleum or others?
I have had good luck with it. I still use a primer before using it (force of habit, I guess).
This is what they can look like primed with DP90 and finished with Concept
Primed and bare wheel:
These were painted 12 years ago and still look great.
I understand that DP90 isn't the same nowadays though.
On the DP 90 issue, some counties in California still sell the old stuff. Placer county is one of these, Sacramento county is not. Living in Folsom makes it easy to go to a DP paint supplier in Placerville. The new stuff is a charcoal gray color, perhaps a blue gray is a better description. Hardly the chassis black I want. The old formulation is much better.
What if anything do you do about rust pits like in the picture? Body filler? Ugh. Here's how mine looks right after spraying with Valspar gloss black. Takes nearly a whole can to cover the wheel with one coat. Imperfections really show.
Ignacio, This is why we use primer. Primer bonds to the metal and fills pits in metal and cracks in the wood spokes. If the pits are too big you can fill them with body filler but it should be done on bare metal before you prime. First coat should be epoxy primer, after that other primers can be used, Pits can be filler with high build primer, sanding between coats until you get a smooth finish. It Just depends how good you want it to look. In the long run it is less expensive to use a spray gun than spray cans and you get a better job. I use a touchup gun for final paint on wheels as it is easier to control the spray in all the tight spots around the spokes and such.
For suppliers I use Eastwood, they are not the cheapest but will ship direct and their products are good. get their cat. on line. There are no shortcuts to restoring assembled spoke wheels. To get the finish you will be proud of take time and patients and a lot of tedious work.
I was gonna smart off and say spray it again...
Want it to look good but wow it is a lot of hours to prep these. What is a readily available rattle can epoxy primer? I have Rustoleum automotive primer but if I use that on the wood?
Look at where you are, You have spent the money to blast and galvanize the rims. Your doing a bang up job of stripping and cleaning the wheels. Doesn't it make sense to carry that through to the finishing of the wheels. Go to www.Eastwood.com. They have airasol epoxy primer as well as all the other primers and paints and on line videos on how to use them.
One think I noticed in your pictures. Stuff a little news paper in the axle holes and mask off the threads to keep the primer and paint off. It will save you a lot of time later.
(Message edited by JP_noonan on February 23, 2017)
Thanks, I like Eastwood but there is a time issue here. I have only 3 more months that I can take my 13 year old son to school in this. It's going to be his car. I am trying to get this as good, safe, reliable, as I can get in a short period of time. Definitely not trying for a show car yet, certainly not a frame off restore. This will be a driver for sure. Trying to get it completed this week or next. We have nearly everything ready to put a reliable but not perfect drive train back together.
Ignacio, if that's your time period, don't worry about pits and grain, you (or your son) can re-do them later. What DOES worry me is the spokes appear to be "clocked" in the picture you showed. Clocked means the hub is rotated in reference to the rim, so the spokes don't line up across the hub. This is caused by shrunk spokes or ones with rot in the center. Either way it is an unsafe condition. Post a picture looking straight on at the wheel, then we can tell if it's clocked or just two spokes that don't quite line up.
@David, they are good it just looks odd in the picture because of the way it is sitting on the rod.
If I could source an epoxy primer locally quickly I could do it but having to wait for several days minimum for it to arrive I just don't know.
COME ON IGNACIO ... I THINK THEY LOOK GOOD ENOUGH AND MOST IMPORTANT PROTECTED FROM WATER. AS LONG AS THEY ARE SAFE .
BUT WHAT IF YOU HAD THE SPOKES OUT AND HAD TO SEND WHEELS TO GET NEW SPOKES ...
WHATS THE BEST WAY OF DOING ? POWDER COAT ?
ALSO POWDER COAT RIMS ?
@Mike yeah that's why I usually outsource painting. When I do it I am never satisfied and see only the imperfections.
So I sanded it with 220 and re-coated it. Looks better. It takes a lot of paint. Two cans for 1 wheel.
Ignacio , you might need biger tires ! Lol im sure they look great.
Just finished six '12 - '13 wheels. Dp90 then Concept. Great fun :^( glad they're done!
I have an old rotisserie motor mounted on a threaded shaft, cones to center the wheel, in pillow blocks, on sawhorses, I use. Figured that I've painted over 30 wheels on it over the years. Amazon has rotisserie motors, figured it was time for a new one.
One easy way to remove rust and old paint from the metal parts of wheels is to cover the wood with Gorilla tape and blast the metal.
When I made new wheels for my touring I used Rustoleum primer on the spokes. I don't know if that's the best way, but it filled the grain and wasn't terribly difficult sanding.
For the top coats I used Ace appliance epoxy. That was almost five years ago and so far it's fine.
Here's the first one. Looks ok with the Valspar, not perfect, not bad.
The view from the tedious wire wheel, scraping, and a properly attired refinisher.
Believe it or not, a year from now you'll look back upon all this work as fun!
My local home store had this bounty:
The 6 wheel hub nuts are supposed to be locked in place by peening over the end of the bolt that protrudes through the nut. It doesn't have to be peened much. Just enough to mess up the last thread or two enough to ensure that the nut can't back off, WHICH IT WILL DO. Maybe you used Loctite instead? (which is probably o.k.)
Ignacio, maybe it's my eyes but, I believe David Dewey is correct. The spoke on one of your wheels do look "clocked."
I believe David Dewey has a point. See how your spokes do not line up from one side of the wheel to the other? It's as if the hub has been rotated clockwise within the wheel assembly, causing the spokes to skew ahead. This does not make for a strong wheel. Please use great care, especially considering your intended use of the car.
I should have shot this before painting, but I think you get the idea.
Whether you peen (mash with a hammer) or stake (use a punch), you want to distort the threads so the nut will stay put. I didn't do a pretty job on this one, but I don't think that nut is going anywhere.
Will carefully re-examine for clocking when I get home from work. Check out this beauty I found doing a cursory tightness check. Totally stripped off on the end.
My old set of front wheels had only 2 front bolts in the front wheels, the rest where rear bolts on the front. That can't be good I think. My 'new' set of wheels has all front bolts in the front. :-)
No need to use carriage bolts in the hub, the vendors sell the correct bolts with the correct head shape.
So these pitted dudes are not the right ones? Not complaining exactly but often when I post something to the forum the res$pon$e i$ wrong, replace.* Are front hub bolts and back hub bolts the same size? My front ones the heads are slightly larger than the back ones.
*I am grateful for the advice and help. And down goes Valdes again to start over on the wheel paint job with new correct bolts. :-)
Don't feel bad Ignacio, lots of Ts have had their original bolts replaced with carriage bolts over the years.
IMO, If you have to buy new bolts anyway, you might as well get the correct ones.
The vendors sell them as a set of identical fronts and rears, but when I installed mine it seemed like the fronts could have been a little shorter and still had plenty of length left to peen (BTW, I used loctite on mine instead of peening).
Can one of the experts chime in on whether original Ford hub bolts were a different length front and rear?
The trouble with carriage bolts is they usually come with rolled threads. A 3/8" rolled thread bolt will have a smaller diameter shank which is not a firm fit in the wood spokes. The ones I buy from a wheel builder have cut threads on full diameter bolts.
I believe the rear hub bolts should be longer to accommodate the brake drum. If rear hub bolts are used on front wheels there is the possibility that burring over the threads will stop the nut coming off, but may not stop it coming loose.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Clocked! :-( The others are not clocked that I can see. This clocked wheel does not appear rotted out so I wonder how it happened.
Nice paint job, but I wouldn't trust that wheel.
My new front wheel bolts, like the one in my picture above, were a bit too long. It was easy enough to cut about a quarter inch off each one before I staked them.
You'll have to take off at least the front plate of the hub and inspect the spoke ends. There is a SLIM chance the tapers were miscut, creating the "clocked" look, but I suspect you'll find some problems hiding behind the metal.
Important question: Are front and rear wheel hubs interchangeable?
Can I transplant my front wheel hub onto a rear wheel? I have a good extra rear wheel. Are the front and back bolt holes in the same spot? Will it wreck the wheel spokes for me to take both hub sides off on the rear wheel?
Otherwise I am in a bad position and will have to seek a good front wheel.
Ignatio, they are interchangeable, but they can be a real pain to get out of the wheel. The outside plate comes off first. To get it off, the hub outside must be stripped of all paint/rust. When you remove the six bolts, the plate can be driven around a little. Then you can use a drift through the hole in the back of the hub to drive the plate off. On a good wheel the hub should still be firm in the wheel and it is best to press it out. If it comes out easily, I would be looking to see why.
Putting in the replacement hub is just the reverse.
Allan from down under.
As for the hub bolts, aren't the correct bolts from the vendors made from a better steel than the original and the modern grade two carriage bolts? Seems like i read that somewhere. Whatever you do to keep the nuts from coming loose, DON"T tack weld them, which I have seen recommended. They need to be able to be retightened if necessary. Loctite is probably OK, as long as it is the blue "removable" type, the red "stud and bearing mount" stuff will have to be heated to be able to move the nuts. Personally, I prefer to pein the nuts as opposed to staking them, makes it easier to retighten them if needed. They don't need to be beat down like a rivet, just enough to upset the threads a bit. JMHO Dave
Jerry V. and David D., good call on those spokes, I didn't catch that. Something ain't right! Dave
"Important question: Are front and rear wheel hubs interchangeable?"
If the question means using front hubs in back and vice versa, the answer is no. They're completely different.
I think he means are front & rear hubs interchangeable within a given wheel. That would be a yes. Obviously, doing so would make a front wheel into a rear wheel, or visa versa.
Your point is well taken however.
Full stop on painting the wheels until I get a new set of correct hub bolts and a new front wheel. Without a wheel press doing a hub transplant sounds like a recipe for destroying an ok wheel.
Hmm, front hub plate is not that hard to remove, then you can tell what is causing the problem. I don't know how hard it is for you to find a good "new" wheel, but being metal felloe, it isn't that difficult to buy new spokes and install them, voila! New wheel.
@David, I don't have a wheel press right now to install new spokes. Having never done that I assume you need a wheel press to put new spokes in?
Ignacio, a wheel press isn't hard to build.John Regan has some plans for one, many on here have built them. Dave
Yes, you do need a wheel press, but as David S. mentions John Regan has a simple plan to build one out of common lumber and all-thread. It does take some patience though!
Yes it does take patience!These are my wheels when I started! haha
Be sure you read the notes with the video.
Look what I built today :-) I think I am turning into Steve Jelf.
Now you are talking- his video is a life saver !
Yes it looks like they rolled. Maybe they were not the right size to begin with, too short?
Possibly. Maybe a previous owner used standard Ford length spokes when the felloes required the 1/32 inch longer Hayes / Kelsey length spokes.
My idle speculation is that it started life as a rear wheel, then when it twisted from the torque, a previous owner switched hubs and moved the wheel to the front.
Gentlemen, this 30 x 3.5 demountable wheel inner diameter is 20.75 inches (see picture). It is a notched wheel (see picture) indicating Hayes but according to Lang's website a Ford wheel is 20.75 and a K-H is 20 13/16. The spoke size as found in this wheel is 9.75.
Which spoke does this wheel take a K-H like this one https://www.modeltford.com/item/2800HS-HY.aspx or a Ford?
It doesn't matter what the manufacturer is. If you've got the 20.75" rims, buy the spokes made for them. Also, be sure to measure the diameter of the hole that the spoke end fits into. Lang's sells the spokes meant to fit in 1/2" holes, however, some are 5/8". Measure the holes in your felloes to be sure.
Also, when you drill the 6 hub bolt holes, be certain to drill them on the seam between two spokes, like your original wheels are. Also, use a drill size that will give a snug fit with the hub bolts. You should have to tap them in with a mallet, (ideally).
If you're using the tab end of the tape measure at the other end, you are not getting an accurate measurement. Start from the 1" mark, and check it again, I'll bet you come up with a different number.
Glad you decided to look into that wheel! Looks like you're on your way. BTW, I think you can get the spokes a little less expensive straight from Stutzman's.
My spokes from Stutzman were about half the price of the ones from the parts dealers. But I've heard that he doesn't sell separate spokes anymore. If that's the case, I'd check with some of the other wheelwrights before paying full retail.
IMO, you have Hayes felloes and the spoke you identified in your link is the correct one <if> your felloes have holes for 1/2 inch tenons. Please measure the tenon holes in your felloes to make sure!
I bought those same spokes and used them to build up a set of wheels with Kelsey felloes, they turned out great.
Felloe holes are 0.5 inch. I re-measured at the inch mark of my tape measureand the diameter seems to be 20 13/16. So it would appear that this spoke is the correct one?
If you're going to do all four wheels, you will need at least 48 spokes (12 x 4). I bought 50 so that I had 2 spares in case I messed one up during pressing (I didn't need to use the spares).
Transplanted! I used the Regan press to hold it and advanced the nut little by little while bopping each spoke and its brother round and round with a rubber mallet until the back wheel hub came out. Then I put a front hub in until the bolts threaded and here is the result. Correct bolts BTW.
Nice and snug stuffing it all back together?
We have wheels.
They not only look beautiful, but safe too!
What brand of tires are they?
: ^ )
When we did my wheels we ended up using a sandblaster with walnut shells. It was taking forever to hand sand them.
Fresh tires & rims, new paint, solid wheels: very pretty.
Well done, Ignacio!
Thanks all, made it to this finish line a few remain. Keith these are Wards.