Bendix keeps jamming on starter T. What am I doing wrong?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Bendix keeps jamming on starter T. What am I doing wrong?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 03:37 pm:

Jammed the Bendix gear into the ring gear and all the rocking in the world wouldn't free it up. So we loosened the starter and BING! it freed up. We researched the issue and seems like if we have the timing to far retarded, it will cause this.
So, weve been careful. And, sure enough this morning, the same thing. Twice in less than a month. Starter shaft is perfectly straight and we don't see any obvious mechanical issue. But, removing the engine pans, hood shelf clips and bolts as well as the firewall bracket (we have a wooden firewall and brackets in a starter engine) it's becoming a PITA.

What am I doing wrong?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 04:06 pm:

1. I never heard of being too retarded causing the starter to jam, but too far advanced can cause the engine to kick and break the bendix spring or worse.
2. Have you inspected the teeth on the starter ring on the flywheel? The teeth should be beveled on both the starter bendix and on the flywheel. If they are flat, it will jam. You need to turn the flywheel all the way around in order to see every tooth all the way around the flywheel. You can see this by removing the bendix cover, you don't need to remove the whole starter. The teeth are beveled on the side where the bendix hits the starter.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 04:08 pm:

Check battery voltage at rest and under load, also clean grounds and contacts.
I don't understand why you have to go thru all that to just loosen the starter? The starter should be mounted with screws not bolts. Leave the pan off till you get this sorted out.
How did you check the straightness of the shaft, eyeball or between centers?
Do you have the correct bendix spring and correct bendix spring bolts?
What condition are the ring gear teeth in?
If you or someone else installed the ring gear are you sure the bevel is on the correct side?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 04:10 pm:

Bent starter shaft,if not anything above.Take off bendix,run starter,look at runout.Straiten with pioe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 04:11 pm:

Doing two things at once,and did not read peoperly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 04:20 pm:

I have had to shim starters so the shaft angled away from the ring gear a fuzz.lt's a damn wonder they work aa good as they do,considering the hogshead is subject to variatons in gasket thickness,the felt piece across the back of the block,etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 05:20 pm:

Shimming might be a solution. Did not install ring gear and there is one spot where two teeth nect to each other are shipped. Every blue moon, the Bendix will catch those two teeth and spit out.
Checked starter shaft with run out gage and checks out to specs. Turn ring gear by hand all the way around feeling for run out on it. I did have trouble lining up my crankcase arms onto the frame holes, so I may be a little twisted between the motor and hogshead. I'll check next.

I brought the extra work on myself by using a 15 non starter wood firewall with 15 brass firewall brackets and installing on a 15 frame with a 26/27 engine and starter on it. When this first occurred, we realized that access to the 4 starter screws was not possible. The engine splash pans also surround the starter pretty good, so we take it off to allow access. We have today trimmed the wood on the firewall and ground a little off the brass bracket to allow a screwdriver to get at the starter for when it happens again, if it does.

Thanks for the direction to check for shimming.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 07:40 pm:

I like that idea, "Straighten with pie" Lemon Meringue? MMMM.
Fix the T??
Too busy eating!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 - 08:23 pm:

Probably has a burr on the starter shaft that needs to be dressed to prevent the Bendix from sticking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Thursday, February 23, 2017 - 11:24 am:

You may want to check the long nose of the mounting bracket to see if it's bent. That can happen if the starter kicks back from advanced timing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, February 23, 2017 - 01:07 pm:

6v or 12v? If 12....just something to think about.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Thursday, February 23, 2017 - 05:13 pm:

6v and we have checked the plum and squarness and smoothness of everything we and you could think of. Back together and we trimmed some things so that if it happens again, and the rocking doesn't free it, we can loosen the starter mounting screws/bolts and free it up. Fingers crossed.

We did notice that our spark timer adjusting rod was shorting out on another spark terminal and causing two coils to fire at once. We are adjusting rod now. Maybe that had something to do with the starting timing and caused this to occur.

Fingers crossed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Friday, February 24, 2017 - 09:55 pm:

AHAHH!The kick from firing two cylinders at once will certainly jam them.Had a timer harness with a tiny,almost invisible worn spot rubbing the timing cover,just about had a friend ready ready to commit T-icide.
.He told me,'THE SLEDGEHAMMER AND THE AX ARE OUT THERE WAITIN'.


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