Which of these phrases is correct? The model t ford is SITTING in the garage, OR the model t ford is SETTING in the garage? I use the term SETTING because MODEL T FORD is inanimate. My model t friend says I am wrong. English teachers?
I'm sure one will answer soon. I say sitting. I only use "setting" as a verb when describing a procedure, like setting valves.
What about laying and lying? Is a book laying on a table or lying on a table. Does it matter if it's inanimate or not? Does a cat lay on the bed or lie on the bed? Same as a book or different?
I'm sure I'm wrong on that one because I never say lie, only lay.
"Setting" is an act, as in "setting the table for dinner". "Sitting" denotes no action, "The Frisbee was just sitting there on the ground".
So, it should be, in your example, "The Model T Ford is sitting in the garage".
It could also be argued that the correct phrasing is "A Model T Ford is sitting in the garage".
In the period of Model T production, rarely was the word "the" used before the name in period literature. It was just "Model T", denoting the particular model designation of current Ford production.
Thus, "Model T made a huge impact on society", not "The Model T ....."
The correct phrase is :
" Your friend's Model T is in my trailer. "
( While he was discussing the simple syntax subtleties - I loaded it up. )
I believe Jim is correct. We often tend to use more words than needed. Model T's don't sit or set. The correct phrase would simply be, "The Model T Ford is in the garage."
If you want to include more about the Model T Ford the garage, it could be, "The Model T Ford is parked in the garage." Another example could be, "The Model T Ford is stored in the garage."
Just my $0.02 worth.
F.J. since you loaded my Tee my problems have diminished. No more foul words, no more sore back from endless cranking, no more skinned knuckles, no more gross fingernails, no more greasy ,smelly cloths, no more walking back to the shop when it stops for no reason, no more pretending I know everything about the Tee. I'm going to miss my Tee pleasure. She answers to the name Jezabel.
Sitting or setting are active. People can sit or set ... but a car can't actually do either. Just as a model T can not "wait" for you in the garage. The model T is in the garage is proper. The only exception might be the car in My Mother the Car .... a car that had the spirit of Jerry Van Dyke's mother. :-)
Everyone knows Model T's are alive.
Jezabel is not in my trailer ....
Can't help you there .....
Last night was Friday so you might want to check the local watering holes ( no disrespect intended ).
I have your friend's Model T .......
Oops F.J. I missed the word friend's.
How about: " The Model T is dripping in the garage." ?
Gee Lenney, sounds like you gave up all the fun! What ya gonna do now?
The dictionary will give you a list of meanings as long as your arm, but the main difference between the two words is that sit is something the subject does ("I'm going to sit."), and set is what the subject does TO something ("I'll set the clock.").
Hmm. Dunno Steve, dogs sit, hens set . . .
Some people have way too much free time on their hands!
I was and still am terrible at English so if it is sitting or setting in the garage you are doing something wrong. You should be out setting or sitting in it with grin on your face driving and having the time of your life. Jim
Once you park it in the garage it "sets" there because it is inanimate and cannot "sit." You can go to where it "sets" and "sit" in it but you cannot "set" in it because you are animate -- or were when you entered it. You are now "sitting" in a vehicle that is "setting" in the garage. Being inanimate the vehicle cannot "sit" it must set.
You could write an English textbook on the past tense of inanimate and animate verbs, which is what "set" has become in this situation. Animate and inanimate verbs and adverbs are "Transitive" and "Intransitive."
Think of it this way: My Bulldog is sitting patiently waiting until I can find his leash that I set down on a counter somewhere. When I find where it is setting the dog and I will get up and go for a walk. We will go harass the setting hen that is sitting on some eggs. She set those eggs to hatch some chicks that will someday set on our dinner table. See?? Nothing to it. =)
It has to do with present and past tense, past perfect and etc.
Off to the shop. Carburetors are setting on the bench waiting for me to get off my dead backside that I'm sitting on and get out there. I have a schedule set for today that includes adjusting and setting the carburetors before I ship them and go sit through my girl's Class C Divisional Championship game where I will be sitting on a hard bleacher until I can barely sit any more.
Can we go back to what kind of oil to use, now?
Toe-may-toe or toe-mah-toe? Poe-tay-toe or poe-tah-toe??? Y'all or you all??? Plural or singular? And we haven't mentioned ahl, oil, or all! Isn't 'American English' both interesting and fun?!?!?
Dont forget tire or tar. Fire or far.
If you set the tire on fire, you have a tar far. You can sit and watch it from a far. Fun stuff if you start playing with words.
My friends in Europe asked me what was the purpose of the word 'do'. I told them it is just an extra word we use. Not needed. ex: Do you want to go to the store? You want to go to the store.
I very much represent that remark ....
Too much time on my hands & it's slipping away from me ...
Jim Riedy...good one! I agree. And PETER!! don't you dare!
I think my T is sitting in the garage contemplating what kind of maladies it can befall on me in the future. So I guess you could say it is resting in the garage, awaiting future mischief.
Who here thinks Ts are inanimate???
David, Id rather not say as it may hear me.
Some of what you've read above is right, and some is bogus. I'd go to the source. Read what the dictionary says about the two words.
Chided for ending a sentence with a preposition, Winston Churchill commented, "This is pedantry up with which I will not put."
My spelling is bad so if I say sit you really don't know if I misspelled set?
Here you go, Steve. This is not what the dictionary has to say about it but it is what Write has to say about it. It is not a simple explanation; the study of the English language offers Doctoral degrees in word forms, Grammar, use of transitive and intransitive verbs, transitive verbs used as modifiers; exceptions; common usages, participles and much more. On the other hand, it has been nearly 50 years since my last college degree and 40+ since I taught any of this so my memory of it is not what it probably should be.
I think I shall sit down and set a bottle of Whiskey on the table where it has sat before, set myself the task of drinking some of it as I have set the task before and sit here until I have finished the task I have set before me as I have finished the task I had set before me before.
Sit Versus Sat
Using “sit” and “sat” incorrectly is a common grammatical error. When you choose the wrong verb, you risk sounding uneducated or appear lacking in your grammar lessons. To know which to use, it is helpful to consider the distinction in definitions, the type of verb each word is and the different forms of the word.
Keep in mind that “set” is something you do to an object, and “sit” is something you, another person, a thing or an animal can do. The definition of “set” is “to place, put, arrange or adjust something.” On the other hand, “sit” means “to rest; seated or in a resting position.” Consider the below examples:
Example 1: She was ready to sit in her new living room chair to test its comfort. (“Sit” is correct because it means that she is seated or in a resting position once in the chair.)
Example 2: She set the newspaper on the table to read later in the day. (“Set” is correct because it means to put or place something.)
Transitive versus intransitive
Learning which verb is correct also depends on the context in which it is used. A transitive verb must have an object. In other words, there is a person or thing that receives the action of the verb. An intransitive verb on the other hand, is one that has a subject that does the action of the verb, but it does not have an object. “Set” is a transitive verb because it has an object, or the something that is placed, put, arranged or adjusted. “Sit” is an intransitive verb because it has a subject, or the person, animal or thing that is resting, seated or in a resting position. Consider the following examples:
Example 3: The dishes were set out for the family’s evening meal. (The object of “set” are the dishes because they are placed or arranged, making “set” transitive.)
Example 4: The young boy sat down for the rest of the movie. (The subject of “sat” is the young boy, making “sat” intransitive.)
Forms of the verbs
It can also prove helpful to consider the different forms of the verb. “Sit” is an irregular verb, so it uses different forms of the word for the past and past participle form. The same form of the word applies for “set” when it is in any form. Consider the following forms:
Sit – sit (present); sat (past); has, have or had sat (past participle)
Set – set (present); set (past); has, have or had set (past participle)
Consider the additional examples that follow:
Example 5: The dog has sat very still through the entire visit to the veterinarian.
Example 6: The soda sat outside in the cold long enough to freeze.
Example 7: Rick sets his alarm clock before crawling into bed.
Example 8: The professor had set the exam booklets out for the students to grab on their way to sitting in their seats.
Indeed, Stan, and once all of that is taken care of, we can move on to "lie" and "lay," which is complicated by the fact that "lay" is both the present tense of "lay" and the past tense of "lie." "I'm going to lie down because I'm tired," but "Yesterday I lay down because I was tired."
Old saying :
"The press lays in wait and lies in print . . . " ;- )
My model T only ever stands in my garage awaiting it's next course of outside exercise! When you are 107 years old sitting down (setting) and getting up again becomes a problem!!
Rich - I think the old saying uses the words incorrectly. It ought to be: "The press lies in wait (equivalent to lurks) and lies in print (equivalent to tells a falsehood or, these days, an alternative fact)."
But I have to agree that the lexically incorrect form is pithier.
You gotta give Lenney credit.He sure knows how to screw up a day.....
I agree with Willis. Too much time. I can understand either sentence. Our language is a means of communication. If each person can understand the meaning, what difference does it make?
I had a friend from Mexico City helping me with Spanish. One day he told me just speak to him in Spanish because my English was so bad. He learned English in college over there and I done learnt mine in east Texas.
Stan, You put a lot of work into your explanation of transitive versus intransitive. But I think you missed the point that the two are context sensitive.
In the Model T context, Transitive means that your bands are set too tight and the back wheels lock up when you just breathe on the brake pedal.
Intransitive means you have the bands too loose and you have to use the hand brakes to stop the car.
Steve's comment about ending a sentence with a preposition reminded me of the story about the sentence that ends with five prepositions. A child going to bed asks her father to go downstairs and get a book, from which he will read a story to her. Unfortunately, the father brings the wrong book upstairs. The child asks, "Daddy, what did you bring that book that I don't want to be read to out of up for?"
(Disclaimer: I am aware that some of the words commonly used as prepositions are not functioning as prepositions here, but it's still a good story.)
A preposition is a bad word to end a sentence with.
As a child I was very confused about going to "grammar" school and "using proper grammar."
This was because my grandmother was known as "Grammer" or "Grammer Dewey." Grammer was what her first grandchild (my niece Helen, who's birthday was the day before mine(and my Grammers; yes we shared the same Birthday)) called her when she was very young and it stuck--it's even on her tombstone. And yes, it IS spelled differently.
I once told my High School English teacher, "I ain't never not done nothing about that!" "Don't use a double negative!" "I didn't--I used a triple negative!"
I don't know why she put up with me!
Generally both sit and set are at least used in the correct context. What really gets on my goat is the way the verb to fit is used by many. There seems to be a move to completely delete using the past tense of fit.
"He fit a new muffler last week." "She fit the task in her work schedule." If the fit was done in the past, the verb is fitted.
"He fitted the new muffler and it fitted well."
Allan from down under.
One thing that drives me nuts is using "than" for "then", and vice versa. Also, "are" for "our" when printed, although almost everyone says it that way, including me. One other is "Holloween" instead of "Halloween". I was taught pretty much all of the correct ways to pronounce and spell things, but a lot of that went out of the window because of the way that the locals spoke/speak. My "oldschool" teachers would probably have a stroke if they were alive today. I HATED English Class. Dave
WOW! all those years I spent in the principals office they never taught me anything like this!
Well this question should help to make this one of the longer threads....
What weight of oil do you set or sit on your work bench?
Set and sit are transitive and intransitive, but those grammatical terms are independent of animation. If I take my pup (who is VERY animate) to the vet and put her on the exam table, I set her there (transitive) and she sits there (intransitive). If I put a dish (inanimate) on the kitchen table, I set it there (transitive) and it sits there (intransitive).
When I put a bottle of Wal-Mart Supertech oil on the shelf in my shop, I set it there and it sits there.
Another slippage of the language is the use of a negative for a positive, e.g., I misplaced my hammer, so I'll see if I can't find it. Or, that's a big job, but I'll see if I can't get that done today. Well, if you just sit there, you'll have accomplished your objective! No idea how that came about, but I hear it fairly often.
The reference to double negatives up-thread a bit made me think of the professor who was telling his class that a double negative makes a positive, but there are no instances of a double positive making a negative. One of his students commented, "Yeah, right."
Dennis Kiefer: You forget/forgit/forgot or was it sit--set--- sat-- or what the heck who cares
just go and sit-set-sat and be done with it
Speak, spake, spoken,
Drink, drake, droken,
Drink 'er down,
Here's to good English !!
Well, now that we have beaten most of this to death how about these? If two Mouses are Mice, why are not two Houses Hice? If two Gooses are Geese, why are not two Mooses Meese?
This is why English is such a difficult language to learn as a second or third language. American English is also virtually a different language than proper or Oxford English.
Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
The Churchill preposition comment reminds me of once hearing somebody on a local radio station talk about what something was "referred to as." I wondered who it was thus referred to as by, and where was the person who it was thus referred to as by at?
There's no doubt that the quirks and complexity of English make it a challenge. Pronunciation and vocabulary vary not only among countries, but among regions within countries. In some parts of the USA folks drink pop, and in other places it's called soda, and some places it's soda pop, and other places they call all brands Coke.
And then there's New England, where what is called "soda" in St. Louis is referred to as "tonic," regardless of brand or flavor.
I set here yesterday and sitting here today
I gota teach you folks how to talk now?
"i'm sittin' in this here wooden cheer"
"The ol lady is settin' the table so we kin eat beanz an Kornbread"
"ol Blue is sittin' at the door wantin' the hambone outa dem thar beanz".
"don't fergit to set dat dar 'larm clock so you kin git to wurk in the mornin'"
(Message edited by tdump on February 26, 2017)
Why do we have TEETH that we clean with a TOOTHbrush?
Or Drive on a Parkway, but Park in a Driveway?
"Wednesday night study subject, "What is Hell?" Come early and listen to our Choir rehearse."
That last one reminded me of something my grandfather told me years ago. One of the parishioners at a small-town church, Helen Hunt, was on the way to her car and found a hymnal that someone had dropped on the parking lot. She informed the church office and the next Sunday, the minister announced from the pulpit, "If one of you lost a hymnal last week, you can go to Helen Hunt for it."
Kind of like the story of the Irish Priest that lost his bicycle. The Bishop told him to recite the Ten Commandments and then forgive the thief. Later the Bishop saw him riding a bicycle and stopped the young Priest to ask him about his forgiveness. Young Priest said, "I did what you told me and when I got to 'Thou shalt not commit adultery I remembered where I left it."
This used to be an "All brands are Coke" kind of place, but we've been invaded by the "Soda" crowd and they've changed our language.
"Set and sit are transitive and intransitive, but those grammatical terms are independent of animation. If I take my pup (who is VERY animate) to the vet and put her on the exam table, I set her there (transitive) and she sits there (intransitive). If I put a dish (inanimate) on the kitchen table, I set it there (transitive) and it sits there (intransitive).
When I put a bottle of Wal-Mart Supertech oil on the shelf in my shop, I set it there and it sits there."
I have no idea if it's really RIGHT or CORRECT or PROPER or whatever, but THAT is the way I use those two words. At least.....usually.
I'm sittin' this discussion out.....
So Gary is setting down his mouse and sittin' down??
"Huh?" C'mon guys!
Communication requires understanding, regardless of the grammar or language. 'Mis'-understanding can never be a 'relative'!
I am standing on what I haven't said so far.
And its wobbly
Marv, Are you certain, I would have swore there was a Miss Understanding mentioned in my Great Uncles will--think she was a relative, many times removed. . .
Steve, then Sit Down!! Don't rock the boat (or stool).
Hahahaha, you guys have reset my opinions of yourselves......
Are all you guys snowed in? Still no snow up here.
Im still trying to figure out where I stand on the sit- sat- set thing. I guess Im on the fence. Not sitting , not setting. Just on the fence.
We got about a half-foot (size 12) up here today - Sending it your way. And Dallas, we would need to know if that fence is split-rail, picket, steel post, or even electrified barbed-wire??? If it's 'Barb', then I at least have a suspicion where my 'ex' went to..... (Spring is less than 3 weeks away, with a forecast of 51 on Sunday!)