TT wood rails question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: TT wood rails question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 08:50 am:

Getting materials together to rebuild Matin Parry wood cab. All I have is the sides , front , and 2 top bows. No floor,no wood rails that mount to frame , no back to cab. What size wood runners or rails mount to frame? 2x6 , 3x6 ??? Photos would be great with some dimensions. Ash would be good for main runners I believe. Poplar is what the cab is made of. I have a mill close that can make anything I want for material. Thanks for any help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 02:19 pm:

This must be a Martin-Parry thing. I had "booster" rails, made of
wood, on top of the frame rails of my 25 flatbed, but my 26, which
appears to be dead stock, has the same "Ford Truck" flatbed riveted
directly to the frame, with wood inserts inside the frame's C-channel.
As the 25 had an extended from to accommodate a Warford, that
truck was obviously modified to some degree, but what is "correct"
and what is modified, I could not say exactly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 02:41 pm:

I have a chassis and part of cab. Thats it. Need an idea what the floor looks like and how it attatches to frame. Has to be right height for pedals to work. Im blind here. I need an example I guess is what Im looking for. Yep, Martin Parry. I dont know if the runners for the bed are under cab also or just the bed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 02:49 pm:

I'm "part owner" of a '26 Martin-Perry produce truck, that is in terrible condition, but the base wood is/was enough there to take measurements. I made up a drawing too--all of this on my now-dead hard drive. Why oh why didn't I print it out. It could have helped Dallas a lot.
Sorry!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 02:52 pm:

Dave, your killin me here. I got excited when I started reading your post. Hope all is well with the dam project.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 03:00 pm:

The only help I can offer is two under-wood-bed 4 X 6s nicely chamfered on the aft end. I even kept the hardware attaching the sides to the cross pieces. Homemade or store bought I don't know but would be glad to take pics and send dimensions..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 03:02 pm:

George I will be glad for any info I can get. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason - UT on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 04:14 pm:

Dallas, can you post a picture of what you have? I'm curious if it looks anything like my TT cab. I don't know who made the wooden cab I have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 04:51 pm:


This is one side and front. The metal panels on door and side panel with the raised bead seems to be a Martin Parry thing from what I can find. This has hinged doors. Some have sliding doors. This was in pieces when I got it along with the 26 chassis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 04:52 pm:

Sorry ,Not sue why they are turned


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

Dallas, I have a Martin Parry with the roller doors mounted on a car chassis. Off the top of my head, I think the rails are 2" wide by 3" high. I'll try and get some pics and measurements tomorrow.

FYI, there is a Martin Parry site, mostly pictures, but some info, and more is added from time to time. www.martin-parry.com

David, my M-P body came from Placerville. I think Wayne Sheldon has posted some pics of a few M-P parts that he has, and a few others in the same area have mentioned M-P parts or trucks from time to time. I'm wondering if there was a fleet of M-P trucks in the area, or if there was an M-P distributor or Ford dealer maybe in Stockton or Sacramento selling M-P bodied trucks. Sure seems to be a lot of M-P trucks or parts in your general area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 09:29 pm:

Thank you Jeff. Any pics would help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Saturday, February 25, 2017 - 11:19 pm:

Just took a look at the Martin-Parry site. A lot of company history and info has been added. Also copies of several dealer catalogs. Take a look at the 1925 catalog. It shows how the frame and floor is constructed with a rail under the entire length of the body and a sub-rail under the bed. It doesn't give dimensions, but i'll measure mine and post them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 02:18 am:

Jeff, that's a good question. Reportedly "my" M-P was used extensively in the Oroville area. Unfortunately it was left outside somewhere, which didn't leave much wood behind!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 01:37 pm:

Looking again at a 1926 M-P catalog on the M-P site, I see that there were assembling plants in Los Angeles, Fresno, Oakland, and San Francisco, so there is potential for a dealer in the area to supply trucks with the M-P bodies.

According to the catalog, there were 2 factories, 3 warehouses across the country, 43 assembling plants, and 6 distributors. I know old trucks tended to be used until they were worn out, and then scrapped or just parked and left to rot, but it seems that with so many plants nationwide, there would potentially be many of these trucks still around, and yet they seem to be quite rare.

Mine is a Model 221 Full Top Express, and according to what I have seen in the catalogs, it is about 1925 mid year vintage. It was apparently last used in 1935, since that was the license plate that was on it. The body was advertised on eBay and was in a barn in the Placerville area, although it shows much more weathering than I think would have happened in barn storage. In certain light you can just make out remnants of signage but not enough to tell what it may have said. There are also what look like flowers on some panels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 01:41 pm:

Jeff, any photos you can post?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

This looks like my cab. Hinged doors and all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zachary Carrico on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 04:26 pm:

Mine is a Mifflinburg body from what I have seen. The floor inside is 3-3/8" from the top of the frame. I have never measured other vehicles, but I assume this is pretty standard to make the peddles work correctly.





The tape is hooked on the far door frame here measuring 46 to the near door frame. The floor is 47" edge to edge.

Obviously no one had yet heard of the necessity for a 4x8' sheet of drywall/plywood/etc.. to fit in the bed :-)
(funny that today even my wife's minivan can close the door on 4x8 sheet goods)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, February 26, 2017 - 04:32 pm:

Thanks Zack. The 3 3/8 measurment will help alot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Monday, February 27, 2017 - 02:35 am:

Dallas, the "sub sills," or rails on my M-P measure just under 3" high and 2" wide.

The cross members or "sloats" on top of the rails are 3-3/4" wide and 1-1/4" thick, and the rearmost one is 3" wide. The last two are 2" apart.

My floorboards are not original, and are on top of the risers and level with the rest of the floor. This makes the pedals a little short, but everything works as long as I keep things adjusted. I think that maybe the floorboards should be on the lower level, on the ledge of the risers and lower ledge of the floor opening. This would make the pedals stick up through the floor more, but the floor would have a step-down.

showing level floor

showing boards on top of riser

showing lower ledges

showing pedal height with floorboards on upper level

My model 221 body has the roller doors and is made for the car chassis. I believe you have the 20B vestibule cab with hinged doors on your TT. If you visit the Martin-Parry site and look in the dealer catalog for 1925 on page 60 shows what I think is your cab. On page 70 it shows the construction of your bed including the doubled "sub-sills" under the bed area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, February 27, 2017 - 03:53 am:

Jeff, those are great pics. My MP has the same floor risers. And I found some of my pictures, but none of my drawings.
M-P door sill plate


Close up of sill plate


The remains on the frame


Close up of the remains


When the weather clears up, I will have to go to Lloyd's where the car is and take some more pictures! He doesn't want the body, but does want the chassis under it. I keep trying to change his mind, as they are one vehicle with local history. Jeff, more pictures of the rear fenders, one thing we don't have, and I understand they are a M-P product.
Apparently this was an open cab, no door version. Fortunately, as I recall, there are all the cowl/windshield pieces to fit this body to the '26 cowl.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Monday, February 27, 2017 - 04:15 am:

Wayne, mine is mostly complete with the sill plates and the rear covers at the bed corners and the license plate / tail light bracket that you can see in some of the pictures. It also has the rear cab panel behind the seat, and the upper fill panel with the sliding rear window. Ed Archer saw my truck at our Long Beach swap meet a few years ago, and offered to sell me a real Martin Parry spare tire carrier, so now I have that.

The M-P rear fenders were missing, so I have Ford depot hack fenders, a rarity themselves. My brackets are home made. Doubt I'll ever find real M-P fenders. I'm also missing the door latches, the door windows and lifts, and the inner door panels, the original seat spring / cushion, and the seat back rest, and the front visor. The door roller track covers / rain gutters are there, but in pretty bad shape.

If anyone has any of these parts I would be interested. Especially the visor and door panels


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, February 27, 2017 - 12:00 pm:

Jeff, thanks for taking time to post these pics. It all helps since I did not disassemble mine. The L bracket from floor to side of cab may be hard to reproduce for original. I wondered how they kept the cab from racking side to side other than wood ftont and back.
David D, you had me going with sill plate. All I saw at first was toilet tank lid. Finding those will be about impossible I would imagine. Thanks for taking time to post pics. I will screenshot all photos and have them for reference. Any others have Marting Parry cabs,I would like to see.
Drive safe and often


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zachary Carrico on Monday, February 27, 2017 - 10:21 pm:

Yes, Dallas toilet tank lids are pretty rare, I think the previous owner left 4 or 5 period lids in my back yard. Based on other items around they can likely be historically linked to the old downtown Skidmore college campus in Saratoga NY since he worked there for some time and recycled just about everything they threw out.

Please let me know if they will be of help in the build I am certain we can work out a fair price.


I suspect a suitable L bracket could be made from a strip of bent 3/8 thick strap iron with the ends ground to be round. with some paint most people wouldn't notice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Monday, February 27, 2017 - 10:27 pm:

Thats funny Zack, I just had that conversation with a buddy tonight about making that bracket. If you sell out of tank lids ,Let me know. I throw them in dumpster all the time from remodel jobs. Ill sell them to you cheap and you get the mark up.lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable - Kiama NSW OZ on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - 12:30 am:

Dallas,
All great info for you above, one thing not mentioned so far is before you start construction it is of great benefit if you can make a full size drawing of the chassis and body. If you draw out the chassis frame full size you will have the correct dimensions for all the brackets on the chassis to the body also and the pedal and steering wheel positions if you draw them in.

If you can find a wall in your workshop big enough or make up a frame large enough to draw out the profile of the chassis and body on to a board you can see how the body will look and you will have all the exact measurements for when you build.

I made up a drawing board out of cheap ply using 3 sheets of 8' x 4' to give me a page the size of the elevation of the chassis it work far better than a scale drawing which makes it hard to see little details.

I used wall paper lining paper to cover the area so I could draw the outline of the chassis and body in pencil. Make a mistake and one can easily rub it out.

I had most measurements from the Harrah's museum for my Kamper. As I drew the main sizes in you can see where there are gaps or areas which need fixing or how thick a piece of timber will be needed to join everything up so the frame mates up with various sections.

If you don't have it marked out correctly you run the risk of cutting a piece of wood and finding out too late it is wrong. Your drawing will also show you before you start how the end result will look and you can alter it to your liking or to make it more correct if you see a problem.

Also don't forget to allow for the seat cushions. Often bodies are built not allowing for them and when they are finished they realize that the seat will be higher and closer to the steering wheel and pedals and its now too late to fix it for a comfortable seating position. A club member did this on a Depot Hack body he built. A mock up out of scrap timber first is a great help especially especially for seating position if you don't have an exact example to get measurements from.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - 02:30 am:

Peter's point about the steering is a good one. My body was not mounted on a chassis when it was acquired. When I got it the steering wheel was very close to the seat and I could hardly get my legs beneath it. I have altered the angle and position of the lower steering bracket on the frame to make it better, but I am still looking for a better solution. I am told that the bracket for a TT is on a different, steeper angle, but I have not verified this. Perhaps the bare chassis destined to become trucks also used a bracket with a steeper angle. Anyone having an aftermarket truck body care to check the part number on their bracket?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - 02:42 am:

Jeff, the TT steering bracket on the frame IS different than one for T, but it is still the same angle as the ones for a T. The firewalls are the same on both of them. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - 03:26 am:

I have also been told that the bracket used on Fordor Sedans is different, is this true or is it the same angle also? My steering wheel was very low, nearly touching the seat cushion. Certainly these trucks were not built this way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, February 28, 2017 - 03:34 am:

Jeff, don't know about the Fordor's, but it sure sounds like something is amiss with yours. :-( Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, March 03, 2017 - 07:02 pm:

Not what I had in mind. Surfing for wood cab trucks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Friday, March 03, 2017 - 10:47 pm:

Yikes!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, March 03, 2017 - 10:51 pm:

SOMEONE thought that was a good idea !


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