Rearend overhaul continues

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Rearend overhaul continues
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 10:27 pm:

[URL=http://s738.photobucket.com/user/thomc1957/media/0304171709a_zpsldp4m3rj.jpg.htm l][IMG]http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx24/thomc1957/0304171709a_zpsldp4m3rj.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
I now have the rearend out of my '21 and disassembled. Check out someone's idea of safety wiring. One piece of wire through every pair of bolts, loosely bent around. I did not find brass thrust washer as I had hoped for. I did find very good looking original Ford inner bearings. The ring gear. spider, and spider gears look like new. The inner seals were the old leather style. I found a babbit thrust washer on the passenger side, as well as a thin shim, I suppose. The driver side had a steel washer and a home-made shim. The spacer between the axles is about 1/8" thick. Thicker than the one that came with the gasket set I bought. I will order the proper thrust washers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 10:44 pm:


Not the best lighting, but some of those teeth look pretty rough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 10:46 pm:

Take a look at a picture of a new ring gear and pinion from one of the vendor's sites. Look especially at the shape of the end of each tooth of the ring gear and how straight the sides are.

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me, but it looks to me that you ring gear is toast. To my eye, it looks like the pinion was set too far forward and wore a divot into the end of each ring gear tooth.

Hope I'm mistaken, can you post a closeup of the ends of a couple of ring gear teeth? Ho about a pic of the pinion gear?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 11:03 pm:

Tommy, glad you took the advice here to tear it down no matter how shiny the paint looked on the exterior. I also agree that you need to post better pics of your ring and pinion gears to see if they are usable or not. As far as the axle disc washers go, you usually need two of them, and then adjust them equally to the appropriate thickness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 11:03 pm:

I don't have the original pinion gear. It was not with the car when I bought the car. A new driveshaft was included, but no pinion gear, so I bought a new pinion gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Weisgerber- Vancouver WA. on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 11:04 pm:

I agree. You will never be able to set tolerances properly with a ring gear in this condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 11:36 pm:


The ring gear is toast.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 11:46 pm:

What is the chance of finding a used usable ring gear? A new one is out of the question right now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, March 04, 2017 - 11:54 pm:

Tommy, after looking closer at the pics others have posted here, it definitely needs to be replaced. Here's a pic of the ring gear i pulled out last year, most of the wear was on the face of the teeth like it should be. Look and compare it to what you have now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 12:04 am:

There are a couple on ebay now but they look rough.
If I have to tolerate some noise for the time being, I will. The gear was obviously running as is before. If it is unsafe that's another thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 12:04 am:

Tommy, You will need to mic. the individual rollers of the hyatt bearings. They should be .500 when new. I would use anything with .005 or less wear as long as they are not pitted. In a pinch .006 or .007 wear would work. I highly suggest new sleeves. You could get lucky with the old sleeves, but not likely. Put your two best hyatt bearings on the outside. The two with the least wear. You also need to do a very close visual inspection of each roller in the hyatt bearings. You are looking for pits, scores, cracks, ect. The spider gears and y-carrier are usually OK. But still give them a very good visual inspection. Then place the y-carrier in place inside the cases. Look for any play at the point each leg of the Y sits in the case. You want no play at all. Sometimes if there is very little play, you can take a fine file and dress down both cases where they bolt together. You will want to use a fine file on the mating surfaces of both the differential cases and also the mating surfaces of both rear axle housings. You are just checking to make sure there are no burrs, or bends at the mating surfaces. The repro fiber washers are not thick enough to just use one washer. You will need to sand two of them down to the needed thickness. The reason is that over the last 90 to 100 years of wear makes the fiber washers too thin. I wish some one would make a set of oversize washers in .005 increments. But they do not, so we must do with what is available. The neoprene inner seal is the way to go. and add a little sealant to it just before installing. remember to grind off the inner side of the sleeves the thickness of the seal if needed. It is a good idea to have a proper sleeve puller. You may need to remove the sleeves a couple times during the rebuild. A sleeve puller will keep you from bending them by trying to pry them out or using pliers or vice grips. Do not sand the insides of the axle housings where the sleeves fit. Check them for burrs, but do not remove any metal by sanding the axle housings. If you sand off as little as .002 or .003 when cleaning things up. You just loosend the sleeves and bearings that same amount. Some better photos of the ring gear will help us recommend if it is OK or not. Depending on how much driving you will do, how much noise you will tolerate, and your budget. All that will determine how much wear you can stand to the ring and pinion. Just take it one step at a time and it will all work out. The hardest part is to get the tollerences right. You basically want zero end play to the axles in the differential, but still turn by hand. Then you are trying for zero end play, and still turn by hand, the whole assembly of differential, 4 steel thrust washers, and two brass thrust washers. inside the axle housings with no gasket. Then when doing final assembly with the axle housing gaskets, you will end up with a proper end play to the assembly. Have fun and be safe ... and remember someone is always here if you have a question ... ..... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 01:17 am:

Tommy, I well-understand the problems with affording a lot of new parts at one time, BUT, you are replacing a lot of other pieces in the rear end, and if you leave that ring gear, you will likely spread metal bits throughout all those new or very good used parts. Also, it really is a pain to tear the rear end out of the car and take it apart; save yourself that headache and find a better gear or a new gear.
Good luck! By the time you get this one on the road, you'll be one of the folks people go to for help!
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 08:09 am:

This summer I have to get a reAr rebuilt but I am going to Dan Hatch in in Birmingham, Al. He know these cars inside and out and I would rather do it once and be done. I am for sure no expert and would like it built reliable. Not like Rufus the 26 is going touring except to the gas station and back. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eido Walny, Milwaukee on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 08:42 am:

With a lot of help and experience from the guys at the Milwaukee T Club, we are rebuilding the rear end of my 27 Tudor. When we took the rear end off, we discovered a previous owner had attempted to work on the rear end using homemade parts and amateur enginuity. The results are that a thrust washer project became a complete rebuild. The project has gone slowly but it has been interesting and educational to go through this effort. It's great - and great working with my T buddies.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 09:36 am:

I've got a couple of worn out ring gears here, but they won't do you any good. If I had a usable one I would send it to you. Come on guys, surely someone has a ring gear that will work for Tommy that they can donate to him. We all would like to see him get his car on the road, and he has been struggling some with it. I happened to find out that he has some family obligations that keep him from spending the money on a new one. Can someone help him out?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 01:24 pm:

I'd offer one to Tommy, but I am also looking for a decent one! However, my search will have to wait a month or so, this month's budget has already been maxed out. At this point, financially at least, I have learned the virtue of patience!
I am reminded of the two buzzards up in a tree, and one says to the other, "Patience my A$$, I'm starving, I'm going to kill something!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 09:30 pm:

I hate that now I have the car jacked up and can't "move" it. Times like this it would be nice to have a spare rearend. But if I had a spare then I might be waiting for a gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 10:03 pm:

When looking at a used ring gear I know wear on the teeth is bad but if there is very little wear but a chipped tooth would the gear be usable?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 11:10 am:

I have checked the bearings and found the smallest ones to be .497. Hopefully all will be good there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 11:46 am:

Try contacting Dave Huson, Bob's, Lang's, or some of the other suppliers to see if they have a good used ring & pinion they will sell you at a discount.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 12:02 pm:

Mark is correct. Most of the dealers have used parts that aren't in their catalogues. Some of the following are dealers with catalogues of new parts and uncatalogued used parts. Some just buy and sell used parts.

Model T Haven, KS (620) 365-6709 modelthaven@nautilus.net

Lang’s, MA (978) 297-1919 www.modeltford.com

Bob’s, IL (815) 633-7244 ModelT2001@comcast.net

Snyder’s, OH (330) 549-5313 don@snydersantiqueauto.com

Chaffin’s, CA (951) 735-4791 www.chaffinsgarage.com

Ron Paetz, Lone Pine Enterprises, WI (608) 604-7534 lonepine@mwt.net

Julius & Marvin Neunhoffer, TX (830) 257-8168 9hoffer@maverickbbs.com

Dave Huson, 2116 Charro Ave. Longmont, Co. 80504
Phone 313-774-9246
email modelt112@msn.com

Bob Hagelgantz, KS (785) 731-5285 loah@gbta.net

Birdhaven Vintage Auto Supply, IA (515) 674-3949

Antique Auto Ranch 2225 N. Dollar Rd. in Spokane Valley, WA 99212
(509) 535-7789

Andy Loso
323 W MN ST
St Joseph, MN 56374
(320) 293-1953

Steve's T Works, LLC
Model T Ford Service, Repair, New & Used Parts.
Longbranch, WA
(253) 884-1925


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 02:33 pm:

Tommy, .497 sounds real good as to the bearings rollers. If you can post a few good pics or link to pics of your ring gear, we can verify the actual condition of your ring gear. (clean it up first) It looks pretty worn in the pics you did post, but sometimes looks are deceiving . Good clear pics of the most worn or pitted areas of the gear teeth will tell the story ...


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