Transmission end float

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Transmission end float
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 07:33 am:

Has anybody looked seriously at achieving the .015 - .022 end float specifications on the Brake Drum / shaft assembly ??

The three standard .042 shims isn't enough to reduce my end float to specification and four shims is too tight.

I have tried combinations of different clutch hubs, brake drums and the shaft that they all sit on. The excess end float is allowing the complete drum sssemblies to move forward. The thrust face on the Brake Drum shaft is minimal in size so it obviously doesn't see any great loading with the most being rearwards onto the clutch hub and thrust washers when the hand brake is applied.

Am I being too fussy with this? Does anyone actually measure transmission end float and what is the maximum you would accept? Looking at it today, I would think the Ford spec was
never achieved in the real world !! Thank you. Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 07:45 am:

In my opinion your last paragraph is close to the truth in the checks I have done with various T parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 04:23 pm:

Alan,
You haven't told us how much clearance you are getting?
Usually the 3 washers come in at spec, but I've had one of a mix of parts that did have far to much and the combination resulted in your scenario.
So what I did was, press out an early style bush, turn the bush of the thrust face, so with 1 washer + I could face the brass one to required float.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 06:14 pm:

Alan, one of the three steel washers could be substituted with a thicker bronze washer installed between the two remaining washers. This could be made to take up excess clearance.

Don't know if this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 06:19 pm:

Only problem I've ever had achieving the right clearance when when the inside of the brake drum was worn where the washers touched. Maybe this is a dumb comment, but I assume you do know the disc drum can be moved a bit forward or rearward even with the set screw in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 07:26 am:

Hello all and thanks for your comments.
As Allan Bennett is aware my issue is a very, very harsh engagement of high gear. Initially I blamed transmission end float but now I'm not so sure!! When I tried a combination of Clutch hubs and Brake Drums my average end float was .046"

I feel that The Brake Drum has to be shifted "rearwards" as opposed to extra shim's to hold it in the forward position with the correct float. I'm convinced that the wear has occurred on the nose of the brake drum shaft where it contacts the main shaft. When the drums are positioned rearwards the alignment with all of the bands is also perfect. I don't believe there is an option to shim that front area to shift it .020" backwards?

I have also found a very loose fitting universal joint (into the transmission output square drive hole) so I'm going to replace that assembly, coil spring plus replace the green Turbo 400 plates with the softer biscuit coloured ones. Also, maybe a couple of original steel clutch plates with a slight dish in them for a cushioning effect. This problem of harsh engagement seems unique to my T !!!

I'm off to the Parts Shed on Wednesday and get myself a complete 26/27 transmission to look at with the view of modifying the brake drum to the narrow width and fitting that into the vehicle. Cheers for now and appreciate your comments. Alan in Western Australia


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer --- Klaaswaal NL on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 07:46 am:

Alan ; The clearance is : 0.015 - 0.022 between washers and Brake Drum.
2588M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 09:18 am:

Hello Anthonie.
That is where I'm measuring and getting the .046" clearance.
I have three steel thrust washers, Hub and brake drum surfaces all in excellent condition which makes me believe the excessive ??? Clearance is the result of wear at the other end of he brake drum shaft where it bottoms out in the trans main shaft. Looks like you have a very nice transmission!
Thank you. Alan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 10:17 am:

The turbo, jack rabbit discs are notorious for harsh engagement. If you want a softer engagement, try the Watts clutch or original Ford discs. When you said biscuit colored discs I take it you mean the Watts discs. A worn ujoint will give you a clunky engagement.
Perhaps these could be your problem along with the excessive clearance.
Thinking on it, I can't see how wear could at the front end of the BD shaft could occur. You have a lot of metal in that area, with the driven gear and all. Has the inside surface of the trans shaft be turned to true it up?


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