Fuel problem?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Fuel problem?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james andrick on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 05:21 pm:

Working on my first model T. I have to choke it to start and keep choking between half and full and it only runs for 30-60 seconds. set the needle about 1 turn. Any ideas? it is up on blocks with lever all way back but tires turn fast when running also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 05:41 pm:

You can back off the mixture needle as much as two turns, then tune to suit. What weight oil are you running ? Perhaps your low speed band is too tight, or oil is heavy enough to grab the high-speed clutch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james andrick on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 05:49 pm:

I drained the old oil and put in 10-30, So I will go out and shut the needle and open 2 turns and try again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 05:52 pm:

James, make sure your fuel flow is constant. Crud in the line ?
Make sure your bands are not so tight as to put a load on the transmission when the clutch is disengaged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 05:53 pm:

Starting in late fall and running into early spring, I have to richen my mixture by 1/4 turn, then pull the crank a couple of times with the choke closed prior to starting. Once the engine runs for 30 seconds or so, I can turn the mixture back to normal for the rest of the drive.

In the summertime, the car starts on the normal mixture setting after two pulls of the crank with the choke on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james andrick on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 06:10 pm:

Still ran the same. I broke loose fuel line by bulb and seems like fuel dribbles out. Should there be more of a stream? about 2 gallons of clean petrol in tank. Old fuel smelled like paraffin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 06:37 pm:

2 gallons is getting low. Plus if it's old fuel, just do yourself a favor and drain and start fresh.

There could be junk in the sediment bulb too.

Can you see inside the tank to see if its rusty at all?

Also, is there an inline filter? I just went through this and found I had a filter that was basically restricting flow. Pulled the filter out and threw it out, made a new fuel line, and with a clean sediment bulb, I can still make it run on 2 gallons or less.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james andrick on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 06:58 pm:

Right. I dumped the old fuel then poured in about 2 gallons fresh.Fuel storage looks ok.No external filter. I will check the sediment bulb and fuel line.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 07:14 pm:

The fuel will not come out forcefully with only two gallons in it. But as long as it is coming out, you should be ok.

If that is all good, open the drain on the bowl and you should see fuel coming out.

If not, also unscrew the bowl on the carb and check that the float is free to move. It may be possible it is stuck up--or shut on the needle and seat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 05, 2017 - 10:01 pm:

Put a pan under the sediment bulb, then open the petcock and run some fuel into the pan. How clean is it? A dirty tank can drive you nuts. VOE.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 01:20 am:

Just going on from Chad and Steve's posts, if you open the drain cock on the carby fuel bowl you will get the carb emptying at a quite steady rate. Allow the fuel to run and if there is a drop off in the delivery, you likely have a restriction in the line from the tank. If you then disconnect the pipe from the elbow and the flow is restored, the fault is in the carb.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie, Memphis TN on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 06:11 am:

I see three different potential problems described in your question.

First, the need to continue to choke after the engine starts. That is most likely caused by the needle valve not being opened far enough - easy fix.

Second, it starts, but dies after 30 to 60 seconds. That is typical of a fuel delivery problem. What happens is the slowly dribbling fuel fills the carburetor bowl when sitting, and that is enough gas to run for 30-60 seconds. Then the running engine uses fuel faster than it's being delivered to the carb. When the level in the bowl gets too low, she dies. The typical way to test this is to put a can under the carb and open the drain on the bowl. You'll initially get a good flow from what's in the bowl, but after a pint or so if you see it go down to a dribble you've proved you have a flow problem. Most likely the screen in the bowl under the tank is clogged. What you should see, by the way, is a good steady flow that continues as long as you have the drain cock open and there's gas in the tank.

Third, the wheels spin when the engine runs. That could be normal, or it could be an indication of too much 'drag' in the transmission. After you get the engine running reliably, you can attack that problem. Slowly pull the parking brake handle back. It will first put the transmission in neutral, then begin to apply the brakes. If doing so stalls the engine, there's too much drag. There are several things that might cause that problem, and we can attack them separately if what I've described doesn't do the trick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james andrick on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 11:16 am:

Yes! It appears the problem is some,well, cruddy goop in the sediment bowl that seems to grow from the inside of the fuel storage tank and a twisted up fuel line bent inside the connection to bowl. Will remove bowl from the engine compartment bulkhead and flush with clean petrol and replace fuel line,remove and clean carb and try again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie, Memphis TN on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 01:44 pm:

I re-read your post. You said the wheels spin with the lever all the way back. That shouldn't happen. When the lever is pulled back past about half way, it should apply the parking brakes. It's possible the rods that pull on the brakes are missing or adjusted wrong, but we'll get to that.

Getting the engine running well is job #1, obviously. But you're close to that.

With the engine running, and you in the seat, press the left-hand pedal down about half way. That should put the transmission in neutral. Hold it that way, then press the right-hand pedal (the brake). That should stop the wheels without stalling the engine. It's possible the clutch pack is rusted together, and you might have to poke the brake a few times, to break the discs free from each other. If you are unable to get the wheels to stop this way, something else is either wrong or mis-adjusted.

Your best bet at this point would be to get a veteran Model T guy to take a look at it. Perhaps there's a Club in your area? If not, post very specific descriptions of what happens when you do each operation, and 20 or so folks here will do all we can to help you figure it out.

If the brake pedal will stop the wheels, then try pressing the left pedal all the way down. That will engage the low speed of the transmission. The wheels should spin, but slower. You could try holding the left pedal halfway down and pressing the middle (reverse) pedal. The wheels should spin the other way.

With your floorboards out, you should see a linkage between the left pedal and a shaft into the transmission. That's what engages and dis-engages the high speed clutch. Then you'll see that when you pull the brake lever back, it automatically presses the pedal down enough to put the tranny in neutral. All that requires proper adjustment, and the instructions for doing so are posted several places on this Forum. Do a search for it.

You can also take a look at why the lever doesn't set the rear-wheel brakes -- whether it's an adjustment or something worse.

Keep at it -- you're almost there!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james andrick on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 07:30 pm:

I believe the fuel problem is solved,just waiting on some gaskets.So now I removed the gear reduction/transmission cover and the compression bands seem quite loose and the drums a bit shiny. So then as Peter mentioned I checked the linkage to the back brakes and it would appear that the adjustment is run forward all the way,so mabey the linings are worn. Thanks very much for all of the great advice from down under to up over! I owe everyone a pint(not a half). Will keep posting as I make progress. Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Max Lindsay on Monday, March 06, 2017 - 07:57 pm:

Please post the results, James. I'm troubleshooting a fuel delivery problem on a 15 touring that is quite the mystery to me,.. then again, everything is a mystery to me! Cheers and good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james andrick on Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 06:16 pm:

Well, the fuel problem has been solved! Clogged screen,bent line,choke spring broke and leaking carb float.With a good used carb from Dave H.the engine compartment is up and running. Is it possible that the brake assy. on the rear could be iron to iron? They are smaller drums on wood spokes.I will remove them this week if all goes well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 01:02 pm:

Congrats on fixing your fuel problem!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 01:36 pm:

James, yes the brake shoes could be wore out. Doesn't take much to pull the wheels to check 'em out. Ought to be checked annually any way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 02:20 pm:


"Iron on iron" doesn't necessarily mean worn out. Original brake shoes (upper left) are unlined cast iron. The others are various aftermarket lined shoes used over the years. The most recent ones are bottom right.


It's not unusual to find original shoes in a car. I replace them with new lined ones.


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