What the difference between a Model T "Sedan" and a Tudor or Fordor?
"Sedan" is a generic automotive term used to describe a closed car that is not a coupe.
Ford used "Tudor" to describe it's 2 door closed car and "Fordor" for the 4 door closed car.
Simply put, there are Tudor Sedans & Fordor Sedans. They're both Sedans.
By the way, as Tim states, Sedan is an automotive term. However, before there were automobiles, carriages used these same terms; sedan, coupe, phaeton, runabout, etc.
Ford originally called what we call the center door sedan, a sedan, I believe.
And before Tudors and Fordors, Ford offered the Centerdoor Sedan with two doors 1915-23.
Here's a 1919 or 20 Centerdoor:
I may be all wet on this, but I THINK in order to be a "sedan" the doors and jamb must be pillared. Conversely, if there are no pillars, meaning if you put down both the door window and adjacent body window, it results in one large opening, then it's a "hard top", not a "sedan".
Anyway, that's how I remember it.....
P.S. Convertibles, touring cars, phaetons, and roadsters are a whole different conversation.
To be a sedan it must also have seating for at least 4 people. One seat for 1, 2 or 3 people makes it a coupe (Doctors or otherwise ).
Then there was the sedan chair....
Can you really squeeze 5 adults into a centerdoor sedan or is that one planning to sit on someone's lap in that photo above?
She'll fit. In addition to "sedan" it's also known as a "cozy car".
I've come to think of a sedan as having 4 doors, a coupe 2. Of course that is a modern understanding. Basicaly a coupe and tudor merged.
Now if you really want to get into it . . .
Couplet, roadster, convertible, touring, phaeton, touring cabriolet, etc . . .
I've had 5 good sized adults in ours !
Tell me if this is wrong...I was told that Ford called them "Tudor's" because he was referring to a horse drawn carriage used in "the house of Tudor" or English / Welsh royalty. I can see Henry doing that instead of Two door and Fordor just makes sense as he is using "Ford" in Four door. If this is true it is just putting lipstick on a pig but maybe he had a little humor in his business. The Model T...carriage of kings.
How would you come up with "Tudor" for a two door sedan?
Yes. The back seat on the Centerdoor is quite roomy. There's plenty of romm for three adults. The leg room is surprisingly good in the front as well as the back seat. I do miss my Centerdoor.
Henry, I'm not saying you are wrong, but I've always had the impression that "hardtop" was coined sometime after WW2 to refer to a 2door sedan that had no b pillar, same as a convertible, and the roofline is shaped to look a bit like the soft top profile of a convertible but of course in metal and fixed.
The Wikipedia article in the link below seems to agree yet it also cites many earlier body types that dispensed with a b pillar but seems to suggest theses were rather uncommon, until late 40's GM products. Interesting reading.
It cracks me up sometimes when on some of the car shows on TV, they describe a sedan as a hardtop. I've seen it several times. Another thing that chaps my hide is when wheels are referred to as rims. That seems to be the norm now.(sigh) JMHO Dave (I guess I'm getting too old)
Ain't linguistics a kick?!
I also miss the center-door I used to have. And yes, I had five adults in it once.
I was really fascinated with the first center door T I saw. It was at the
car museum in Murdo, SD. The design was just so bizarre to this kid in
the mid-70's. As I got older and around more old cars, that humped roof
struck me as not-very attractive, the oval back window just downright ugly.
Never did like ovoid shapes in design. I can certainly appreciate the hold-
over design theme of them from carriage days, but like the billiard table
flat-topped Tudors and Fordors better from an aesthetic perspective.
Still, the center door is pretty neat for being such an archaic design !
4 door sedan = pillared doors, 4 seats
2 door sedan = pillared doors 4 seats
Coupe = 2 doors, 2 seats. can be pillar or pillar less doors
Drop head coupe = convertible coupe - top goes down
Hardtop = no door pillars, Can be 2 or 4 doors
Cabriolet = 2 or 4 door convertible, roll up windows 2 or 4 seats
Phaeton/Tourer = 4 seat, 4 door , no windows fold down Winds.
Roadster = 2 seat, no windows, fold down windscreen
Victoria = variant of 2 door sedan
Faux cabriolet = variant of coupe
Burger, the first center door sedans that I saw were in Floyd Clymers' book, "Model T Memories" when I was in high school in the early '60's. I thought they were VERY cool!! My old buddy and I found a body of one that had been used as a chicken coupe in about '63 or so. We drug it home and were so proud of it. Unfortunately, there wasn't much of it that was salvageable. He kept the parts of it until he passed away in '08. By the way, my wife and I visited that same museum in Murdo SD. a couple of years ago. That's where we took the pictures of the "8 in 1 Truck Body" that were posted on here a while back by Dallas Landers. The museum was also featured on "American Pickers" not too long go. Small world, Huh? Dave
Erik, Ford's "Faux cabriolet" was known as a "Sport Coupe"
(I'm the second owner of "Ma Green."
This thread reminded me of the time, back in the 1970s we visited a guy who's place was on the road to Callahan (Northern CA). His was the first place after you climbed the hill from the valley out of Grenada; it would have made a half-season of "American Pickers" the long driveway was scattered with "organized" piles; washing machines here, lawnmowers there, etc. In the barns was an incredible pile of stuff, in one was the frame to a 2 cylinder REO, in another was the body put on a horse-drawn sleigh frame--but all the parts were there! I don't remember what all we saw, but that REO and the Center Door T sticks out in my mind. The T was up to it's hubs in Um, dirt--yeah, I hope that's what it was--wiped off one side window, and the interior was intact, though the headliner was starting to sag in a few places. Good paint on it too, Today it would be celebrated as a survivor, back then I was told, "those wheels will be rotten down in the dirt, forget about it!"
I have no idea what happened to all that stuff; I fear the buildings were just bulldozed down and burned, but I don't know for certain.
Man, the opportunities we "just missed." The guy was a real recluse, and I don't remember if we ever got to talk to him--I didn't arrange for the visit and I forget who all was with me then--there were enough of us that we weren't afraid of meeting a shotgun!And the reason we were looking so hard was there was supposed to be Steam car there, and a car with a round radiator; didn't find either, though we were told the round radiator car was in another barn on the place a few miles away.
Nothing opens gates and doors to places like the one you describe
like driving an old car or truck. It is amazing the stuff that "comes to
you" when people just see you out and about, not at car shows, but
just out in the boonies, driving.
I appreciate all the feedback on the definition of "sedan" and am happy to report that I wasn't "all wet". The thoughts here mirror my own but I know a T guy who swears "sedans" are roomier that the aforementioned "closed cars".
What do you call a chicken coop with four doors? A chicken sedan of course! I know it's an old joke, but I like it. Dave