Model year vs build year???

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Model year vs build year???
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Cicciarelli on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 08:50 pm:

So if you have a car built in September of '23 and someone asks you "what year is it?", do you say it is a '23 or do you say it is a '24? I understand the model year would be '24 but it was actually BUILT in '23. So as a casual answer to a common question, what do you say?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 09:01 pm:

I would call it what Ford called it. A '24 Ford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 09:22 pm:

It's a 24, just like cars are still built today with the new model coming out every fall as next year's model.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 11:15 pm:

If it's built to '24 specs, call it a 1924 model year. But mention that it was built in 1923 as part of the 1924 model year, and then explain that if they ask. You might educate someone that way, and you won't be lying when you explain it that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 11:29 pm:

My coupe was built during the first week of November in 1923 which makes it a 1924 model year. I call it a '24. If I ever put Year Of Manufacture plates on it they would have to be 1923. "It's complicated."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 11:38 pm:

As Derek says, the new models come out in the fall. This has been the industry practice for the past 100+ years. Those of us who are older than dirt remember when the fall unveiling of the new models was a big deal. Styles and features changed a lot from year to year, and folks were eager to see next year's model.


This car's features identify it as a 1957 Ford, even if it was made in 1956. If I called it a 1956, people who know these cars would think me silly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Wednesday, March 08, 2017 - 11:54 pm:

Was there a standard practice for the Month they used, like Sept. or Oct.? And i wonder how they dealt with transitioning over to the "Improved Models"? Mine, i think is Aug. of 25...right on the edge of the un-improved. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 12:12 am:

This discussion is always unnecessarily complicated.

I own and drive a 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix. "2003" is an adjective, not a specific date. This is how we describe cars in the U.S., by model year, not by actual date of manufacture. When folks ask my what kind of car I drive I don't say, "It's a 2003 Pontiac and, by the way, it came off the assembly line in February of 2003."

As far as year of manufacturer plates are concerned, I am willing to bet that states that have such a law will only allow you to register a plate with a year matches the year on the title, which is the model year, not the year of manufacture. That is what is allowed in Minnesota where I live:

Original Minnesota Plates (Minnesota)

Original plates are plates with an issue year that is the same as the vehicle model year, or that display a tab or registration sticker that is the same as the vehicle model year. For example, an original 1965 Minnesota license plate with a 1966 validation sticker may be displayed on a 1966 vehicle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 12:25 am:

John, Ford's new model year usually started August 1, but not always. Details by year are here: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG90.html

Erik's explanation is exactly correct. It's amazing to me that so many people fail to grasp (or accept) the concept.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 01:09 am:

Thanks Steve, seems like I'm in that very narrow window between 25, and 26.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 02:47 am:

John, Unless you have a TT truck, what year model does your T look like, a 1925 T or a 1926 T, they are quite different looking. Yours is the year model that matches. The runabout in your picture is a 1925.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 03:04 am:

Erik,
It doesn't work that way in Califunny. YOM is the year it was made, not the year model. CA pink slips used have two lines: Year first sold, Year model.
BTW, you want it even more complicated? I restored a RR that was made in 1927, but didn't get sold until 1929! The factory took it back, repainted it, and also did some engine experimenting with while they had it--things like even an dash mounted engine oil level gauge!
Model T content: first owner was the President of the Warford Transmission Company.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 05:01 am:

David D, what is an RR? I hate it when posters use abbreviations. I usually have no idea what they are talking about. Sorry for the rant, but I just don't understand why anyone would use an abbreviation and expect everyone to know what it stands for. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 05:04 am:

Sometimes, details are really important. Often, they are not that big of a deal.
I don't recall which book it was, but one of Mark Twain's early books was published with a few minor printing errors. As the books were nearly hand made, one by one, the errors were corrected. If you find a good original edition of that early printing? The combination of errors makes a HUGE difference in the worth of the book. It can vary from a few hundred dollars in good condition, up well into six figures for the "right" one. One of the many things I never had, but wish I did.

On well restored '09s and '10s model Ts, dozens of minor details matter to potential buyers and historians wanting to understand that short era better. However, through most of the model T's nineteen years of production? A lot of the details really are not that important. Whether a model year shift changed about August in some assembly plants, but not till October in others, can confuse the model year/fiscal year/calendar year thing a lot.
Frankly, I think too many people get all too worked up about nothing.
If a fellow has a model T touring car built in late June or early July of 1923? And that car has a high radiator, lips on the front fenders to match the radiator shield, along with the firewall and a few other '24 model year identifiers? I really don't care if that fellow wants to tell his friends that he has a 1923 touring car. Even though I KNOW that it really was a 1924 model year car. I just don't think it is that big of a deal to get all worked up about it. For about two months, both high radiator '24s and low radiator '23s were being assembled and sold from different assembly plants.
Because it truly describes the car, it should really be identified correctly by the model/style year. and if you want to, add a little to it. My "June '23/'24 model T Ford" for example. I often referred to my coupe as an "April '24", even though it was well placed mid year and not in any gray areas whatsoever.

Model year is what the designers, and marketing says it is. It describes the line of the hood and fenders for what the designers and marketing wanted it to be, and has little to do with WHEN it was built. This sort of thing was happening before 1910. And it has been happening almost continuously ever since. Last year, 2017 models were being sold locally in June. I saw them, and their commercials. I expect the 2018s will be out soon.
Drive carefully, and ENJOY these things! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 06:15 am:

David - RR= Rolls Royce. During the 1920's about 3,000 Rolls Royces were built in Springfield, MA.

The model year/ manufacturing year difference may have caused some confusion when the Model T's were new also. Many '24 Fords made in July - November 1923 made it to the streets long before the end of the year and were likely given a 1923 registration in many states, depending on local rules. But few have been titled continuously since then, so when applying for a new title, it should be easy to show some evidence what model year it's supposed to be. If you like. Otherwise it shouldn't matter much what is said on the title as long it's in the 1909-27 bracket :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Thursday, March 09, 2017 - 07:09 am:

OK Bill ......

Have you got the Metz running yet ?

When can I go for a ride ?


Freighter Jim



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 04:37 am:

Thanks Roger. All I could think of was "railroad". :-) Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 09:25 am:

The states started using titles about 1920 and the rules were different in each state for the year listed on the title.

New York state was a late bloomer and started using titles in 1973.

In some states, a 1923 could be unsold until 1924 and the title would list it as a 1924 vehicle.

In other states, the year of manufacture would be listed on the title, so a 1924 model year, manufactured in 1923, would be titled as a 1923 vehicle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 12:59 pm:

David, sorry for the confusion--with us all being car guys, I figured RR would be recognizable--but being a Railroad guy myself, I can see the confusion. Roger has the answer correctly, the car was/is a "Springfield Rolls Royce Phantom 1 with a Piccadilly roadster body. I hope by now it's finished, when my "Boss" died the car was "body in white" with rough fenders, but completely restored chassis. The car had an amazing history, and was at one time cut up into many pieces; the front end being under a manure trailer, the engine running a welder, the rear part in a gully. Talk about a "basket case!" One of the odd things, when all the parts were gathered up from the ranch where it had been, there was a second set of wire wheel retaining caps. Sooo, where where the other 4 wheels?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

Hi Jim,

The short answer is: Yes. It runs like a sewing machine!

After you delivered the car the year took several twists and turns which required time and effort and as a result the Metz was often neglected. Oh, there may have been odd stolen hour here and there and the very rare entire afternoon when I could poke, prod, check, clean, lube and get to know the car.

It has been my intent to compose an OT post some time in April with a more detailed update with pictures. (Folks here seem to like pictures, even if they are of something other than a Model T.)

It is a good little car and should become a good tour vehicle, contrary to what some think of the Metz automobile.

One teaser picture. Stay tuned. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, March 13, 2017 - 11:32 pm:

Don't look Wayne S.!!!
You might want to dig stuff out behind/beside the shed!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 - 12:32 am:

Bill H, I look forward to seeing those updates!
David D, Too late too late too late too late!


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