Need Help With 27 Engine Number

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Need Help With 27 Engine Number
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 07:53 pm:

Purchased what is being represented as a 27 T rolling chassis this afternoon. Haven't broght it home yet, but the wife wrote down a number off the side of the block above the water inlet, but my limited research doesn't make sense to me. She says it's:

19134024

Engine has water pump, head mounted coil box, swivel top carb, starter and 6v horn. The steering column unmounted is a 26/27 column with the horn wire tube, no cowl, but a cowl mounted gas tank and sediment bowl and a one pice running board bracket over the hogshead with rubber pedal pads on a wide mounted pedal hogshead.

So, I'm thinking this is a 27, but can you help me understand the engine serial number and date this engine a little more specific?

Any and all help appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 08:18 pm:

The parts listed indicate either a 26 or 27. However there was no Model T engine with a number that high. Does the engine have two bolts at the back where the hogs head bolts to the block? Those two years are the only ones with those bolts.

Your number might have been re-stamped with a different number at some time after the car was made, or possibly that is 13134024 or 14134024 which would both be 1926 numbers. Anyway, check he second number again to see if it is either a 3 or a 4.

The chassis should also have "horns" on the front corners made for bolting on the 26-27 fenders.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, March 19, 2017 - 11:12 pm:

It does have 21" wood spoke demountable rims as well as a bolt that was sticking up loose from the passenger side extreme corner of the frame, so I'm guessing that is your fender mount bracket. I'll know more when I get it home.

My wife took a photo that I may post here or wait until I get it home and get some degreaser on the number. Could be a 3 indeed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Thomas on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 12:00 am:

I have a '27 chassis that has the engine number stamped on the right hand side of the frame, top. I think all the "improved" cars also have this number on the frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 12:20 am:

If the second digit is a 5, the number indicates August, 1928. Ford kept making a few Model T engines until 1941. Replacement engines came with a serial number, but bare blocks were unnumbered and were supposed to be stamped with the number of the presumably ruined engine they replaced. But that didn't always happen. Some got "creatively" numbered.

Erik is correct. Beginning December 10, 1925, the serial number was stamped on top of the frame rail under the floor boards. It's normally on the right rail, but occasionally on the left. You may have to remove some "patina" to see it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 10:01 am:

I'm picking it up tomorrow and will check for the frame number as well as clean up the second digit. What we think is a 9 sounds like is really a 3, a 4, or a 5. All of which, with just a small straight line of dirt, or grease, could look like a nine in a dark barn.

I preume I have confirmation that it is not a 9, so no sense hoing down that rabbit hole.

'll report back and let you know what I find and see if we can come up with a casting date, approximately.

Thank you all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 11:48 am:

My '27 has the serial number stamped on the right frame rail under the floorboards. It does match the engine number in my '27 touring car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 01:18 pm:

Now I'm really getting anxious about getting the car home. My wife has looked at her cell phone photo of the engine number and is convinced that there is no 1 in front of the 9 which puts this engine into the 24 time freme, not 26/27. So I got to get it all home and look for the frame number and clean up the engine as best I can and get more information.

I guess it's possible that bubba put a earlier engine in a later car if he needed to replace the original engine at some point in time. But he hung the later coil box and some other itesm about the hoshead and frame got me thinking this is a 26 chassis with a ? motor in it.

To be continued....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 09:37 pm:

Still haven't picked it up yet, but here is a photo we took the other day when we saw it. I know it's not the best detail, but it shows what we are getting into.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank - Three Way, TN on Monday, March 20, 2017 - 10:01 pm:

Not a 26-27 frame.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 08:50 am:

The fan mounting is late enough to be a 1926-27 style.

The clutch and brake pedal should be elongated for a 1926 -27, instead of the standard oval shaped pedals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 09:36 am:

We are headed there now with a blank bill of sale as we don't know what to call this pile of parts. It is represented as a 26, but I am leaning towards everything being a 24 or 25. And all the doors and lights and other parts coming with it may or may not have even been with this frame at any point in time.

I'll drag it all home and post plenty of photos and see what I got and that may help determine what to do with it all. Sometimes, it's fun just to play with all this stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 10:20 am:

I believe it is a '26 - '27 frame BUT it's missing the front frame horns. One can clearly see the rear body mount extending farther out than the earlier frame & the late style hood shelf bracket is right next to the carburetor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 11:05 am:

I agree that 26-27 is most likely. For the bill of sale, I'd use the serial number on the frame. Use whatever model year that number indicates.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 06:06 pm:

Pictures to follow, under tarps for rain expected this evening. I think FrankenT. No stamped number on frame passenger side by handbrake yoke. No horns, yes an extra bracket on the radiator side of the cowl bracket. January 24 engine number. 21" wooden spoke wheels. Goodyear All Weather 4.50 x 21 that were made in Brazil, still have nubs on the tread area. Single taillight wire, starter and starter switch engine. Floorboards. Rubber pedal pads, same spacing as our earlier T, so not later hogshead. Swivel top carb. 26/27 coil box mounted on head. Head bolts have one large dimple in the center, nice Ford script on the head. Water pump on engine with pully, long shaft and mounted to the side of the block. Electric horn with long trumpet, very similar to horn on my 42 Gpw, Spartan, long trumpet. Various splash shield, fenders, doors with glass and three hinges, square gas tank, but not a cowl tank, two dashboards, one with speedometer and light built in with switch and amp meter, one with just the two joined cutouts for the switch and amp meter. 21" Firestone on demountable rim and Y shaped spare tire carrier. Three drivers front fenders, one passenger front fender, two rear fenders, two running boards with no Ford script on them and no bolt holes in the floor of them to mount to the single one piece running board bracket. Rear bracket is missing. Two steering columns, both with the tube down the center bottom for horn wire. One with square welded bracket for the cowl and one with a two pice bracket held on with some wires to keep them together. Two headlight buckets mounted to a headlight rod with angled brackets to mount to fenders on the rod, not the headlgihts. no rings or glass.

So, fun, fun, fun, to research Iask you guys) and see what the heck I got and what the heck am I gonna do with it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 06:44 pm:

Looks like the start of a speedster or depot hack to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 09:37 pm:

The headlights are late 26 or 27. The steering column with square mount is 26-27. The other steering column is for older car.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 10:15 pm:

Cool project on the horizon. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 10:46 pm:

If the doors are 26-7 Tudor, you done good.


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