Any one have or know about Slip yokes for brake rods so the clutch can disengage before brake comes on .
Looking for information on a early accessory and are they being remade by any one or a modern version that one can buy.
The clutch should disengage before the brakes come on with the original set up. With the lever up and down should be neutral then adjust the brakes so after a few clicks back from there the brakes should start to engage.
Try this method for adjusting the length of your brake rods and see if it helps.
We fitted new brake shoes with linings on and lost all the travel, there is no adjustment left and no thread so the rods will have to be made longer. The brakes come on just before the neutral position. The above idea was an easy way out of the problem.
Ray, I make my own by drilling a hole next to the existing one and then grind out the middle making a slotted clevis, it also allows the brake handle to go forward out of the way more.
I agree with out this forum ,and the model T parts venders that we should all be supporting ,model T life would be difficult for many.
Thanks Mark. I will be dealing with the brakes and brake rods on my car shortly. I'm putting the rearend back together now. The brake rods are new and need to be cut to proper length and threaded on the front ends.
Unless you are making your own brake rods, there should be no problem with stock length rods for the year you are working with when using stock parking brakes.
Do you guys know that when the parking lever is all the way forward, there is some "BOW" to the rods. As the lever is pulled back the bow is removed and brakes are applied.
Also, how worn are the related cam and bushing on the backing plate.
Maybe someone in the past has re-threaaded the shafts after cutting to shorten to compensate for worn shoes/cam.
If you are working with 1926/27 are you sure you have the shoes seated in the locating clips? If it earlier, (or even 26/27) sounds like you just plain have the shoes too thick and need to be ground down some.
I had no rods with my car. I bought steel rod and bent them to clear the rear radius rods. I threaded the rear ends for the clevis to screw on.
I will know where to cut and thread the front ends when the rearend is back under the car.
I went out and checked one of my rods. As far as I know they are stock length. The rod measures approx 54 inches from the center of the forged end hole to end of threads. This would be for up to improved models (1925)
Hope that is of some help.
I think Ray has seen this posting on the Forum on January 9th 2017 at 11:07 pm
The repo lined shoes can have too much thickness on the ends which ride on the cams or they are just too big in size so there is not enough movement for correct operation of the emergency brake lever. There have been a few postings on this last year.
When the emergency brake is in the high gear position they are just about touching the drums, there is no space for them to expand enough to allow the brake lever to pull back into neutral and then further back to lock the drum.
The photo's shown in the Jan 09th posting show three positions with a cut away rear drum I use to see what is going on as the shoes often require altering in other spots to get good fit.
Using the slotted yoke allows you to gain far better leverage on the shoes for parking as you can adjust the length of the brake rods so the lever can be pulled back into neutral and with the brake shoes just about touching the drum and when going from neutral to park the brake shoes immediately clamp on the drum.
The slotted yoke is available from one of the parts dealers but for Model A's from memory.
I made mine out of a piece of 1/2" rod.
I hope the link works??
There are different ways to set the handbrake adjustment. In Peter's post above it would appear that the rods are adjusted so that the cam is level when the lever is set in high gear. Pulling the lever into neutral may have the brakes partially engaged in neutral, making the car heavy to push. Further application on the lever will further engage the handbrake.
I adjust mine differently.I set the lever in neutral and adjust the rods so the cam is on the level. When the lever is put into top gear there is slight action at the cam. If there is no drag, you are good to go. When coming back to neutral, the clearance between the shoes and drums is slightly increased. Further pulling of the lever will bring the shoes into contact with the drum with the cam working on the other side, and then further pulling engages the brakes more fully. You loose a little total engagement, but there is no drag in neutral.
Just another way to skin the cat.
Allan from down under.
Alan, try it with the lined shoes and you are up the creek, with standard shoes any one can fit and use with no problems. I only used the lined ones as I could not find any good originals for sale out here as the people I contacted only had rubbish asking top price and I had run out of time. If i could find some that I consider acceptable then I would buy them. Peter is correct in what he is saying on this problem and I have the best T person in this country helping me on this problem also as to using factory standard rods then there is no standard as so far of the rods we have checked the length can vary up to two and a half inchs between them.
Peter, were can I get yokes like the one in the photo as I have had playing with the T and am ready to put in the back of the shed and leave it there.
Peter, sad to say I had not seen that posting as I rarely come here or any of the T sites these day as I have had to put every thing I do on hold for over sixteen months with health issues and even have neglected taking the tank for a run till last week and then to take out some frustrations on a car or two and a few trees. Next time Richard comes up I will take him for the ride of his life.
Hi mark, I checked rods off another 1913 and they were 4'7", the rods on my 1913 were 4'6" and another set was 4'5" and out of the blue I found a rod just short of 4'8" so were do you turn. Thank you for checking the ones you have and to all that have given advice, we will be using the 4'7" at this time to at least give me a neutral so I can start the car till I find a set of these yokes.. Ray
I am sorry. I just cannot sort out all of the above comments right now.
A "slip yoke" is not what you need here. Properly fit, and properly adjusted, you should be able to get solid braking with the handle just a few ratchet clicks behind a nice and fairly free neutral.
Many people use new replacement braking cams in the backing plates. I usually attach a formed-to-fit piece of steel around the original cams. I make these for myself because the fit must be custom to each worn cam. I usually braze the shims into place so that they cannot work loose. Use new bushings for the cam shafts if needed.
Whether you shim the old cams, or use new cams? The new lined brake shoes will probably need some fitting. How much and where, depends on many factors, including condition of the drums. Often, the heal of the shoes (where the cam pushes the shoes outward) will need to be ground (or filed) back just a little bit to make more room for the shoes inside the drums. Arching the lining on the shoes (to fit the drums) should also be done for optimum contact and best adjustment (can be done with a coarse file and fit). From my cursory read of your original post above, I suspect this is what needs to be done. (My apologies if someone else mentioned that already.)
Often, the pivot end that sits on the bolt at the rear of the baking plate also needs a little fitting. A medium to large round file works best here.
Best adjustment is optimum neutral right at the peak of the front ramp (where the clutch cam levels out and no longer raises the clutch arm). Brakes should engage NO MORE than four (I prefer two or three) more clicks back on the brake handle. Make certain that the ratchet and pawl are in good working order. (They are something that you bet your life on!) You need good hand/arm leverage to apply the brakes, and room for wear to occur over the driving miles.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Ray, if you find a source for those brake yokes, let us know would you? I want a set. :-) How did those trees fare? ;-)
Oh shoot, I see You're Down Under.
Peter, the pic of your slip yoke is too cool. I like!
R Allan, I re-read your post and I did just that on my '24. Works good.
Mark, thank you for that link. I needed to see your pic too.
This question has been banging around in my noggin lately. I gotta do this in a week or two on an '18.
Thanks for bringing this up Ray!
Duey, the trees do not fare well and some times the gate post gets hit. 20ton of armour will cut through a 6" tree with no trouble but cars fare much worse.
I am searching the hardware company's each time I on the computer.
Ray,I have lined shoes in my 24 tourer and my 25 roadster, set up as I described, with no issues at all.
Your mileage obviously varies. Are your shoes the newer one piece ones? These are much nicer and much easier to fit than the old cast two piece jobs.
Allan from down under.
Hi Alan, We used the two piece shoes and I now believe they were not filed down to make more room.
I have now found a clevis pin yoke manufacturing company near Orange NSW and I will try and drive over to see them next week on our way home from the big Military vehicle auction in Cowra. There is a really nice A Model in the sale as well and some 60's vehicles to be sold. Ray
Ray, the two piece shoes are notorious for their poor fit. Often the pivot point opposite the cam end is in the wrong place and needs to be filed away so the shoes are more central. Both ends often need correction to make the shoes sit back against the backing plate. Once you have them sitting in the correct place, you may still have to reduce the thickness of the face which sits on the cam. This will increase the clearance between the linings and the drum. Three hours or so later, with luck, you might be able to fit the wheel. With this in mind, there may be no need for further modifications.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Thank you Alan and will pass this on to see what can be done, I will be at a cross roads by next week end and major decisions will have to be made as to which direction to go. As it stands the T must be sorted and ready to rally by mid April.
Hi Duey, well I found the yokes and it was Peter Kable that gave me the place to look. Yes a similar is shown in the A Model replacement parts book but the real item was used on the 1928 A only, I checked three cars from four years and it was this model so find some one with the 28A.
Thank you Ray and Peter! I do appreciate it!