Help .. New pinion with modern bearing dragging in one spot

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Help .. New pinion with modern bearing dragging in one spot
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 06:40 pm:

Putting together the rear axle. Wanted to check the backlash and bolted the drive shaft to the left side housing which was held vertically in a bracket bolted to my table. I had already fitted the washer between the new axle shafts.

With the drive shaft bolted tightly I found that when I pushed the ring gear with my hand it would not go around 360 degrees. It stopped in what appeared to be a high spot on the ring gear. Also the axles seems bound ... could no longer rotate the top axle by hand.

Took everything apart and happened to turn the drive shaft from the U joint end and found that it would not turn 360 without making a slight scraping sound in one spot. Obviously this is the problem. Interestingly when I turned the tube over the sound went away when I turned the drive shaft.

The drive shaft is fitted with a modern non adjustable bearing kit and a new pinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 06:52 pm:

I had the same thing happen on my Ruckstell build. I had to do some grinding of the inside of the driveshaft housing around the pinion bearing locking collar set screw. I also ground some off the high corner of the head of the locking collar set screw after it was fully tightened with Loctite (Sorry, John!).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 07:18 pm:

Hmm, so I'll be removing the U-Joint pin, withdrawing the drive shaft and bearing assembly and removing the locking ring. What should I expect to see and how much do I grind?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 07:34 pm:

Trial and error. When I checked mine, I had the U-joint in place and the pin fitted, but not peened yet. The locking collar sticks out of the pinion housing, so there shouldn't be any need to loosen or remove the collar. Just remove the three bolts holding the pinion housing to the LH axle housing, slide the driveshaft housing off of the pinion housing and inspect to find where the interference is ocurring. Grind as required. If you can confine your grinding to the inside of the driveshaft housing and get everything to clear, so much the better. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 08:45 pm:

Mark, I had same thing. It was the head of the bolt that rubbed. Ground the edge that was sticking out off a bit. Can still get allen wrench in if needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 10:56 pm:

It well may be the set screw if we are talking the "funproducts" bearing, I did, but I also had new ring and pinion and if it is the 'high speed' gear set the pinion can hit the ring gear bolts if set to deep or the bolt heads stick out a little, I had to fix that to!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 11:39 pm:

If it's rubbing in the tube, that is covered in the instructions. The weld in the some tubes is none too pretty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 11:47 pm:

Just about every one of those that I put together I had to grind out the inside of the tube to get rid of the welding flash and turn down the head of the locking bolt on the clamp.

Just a little free advice, take it for what free is worth. Before you mount any ring gear you need to make sure the mounting surface is flat, flat, flat. Often there are burrs around the holes, risers on the machined surface, etc. They can be hard to see but can cause run out on the ring gear very easily. A good file is a good investment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 11:48 pm:

Interesting.
The set screw on my closed spool Fun Projects shaft collar has its head ground down at a 45 degree (or so) angle (cone topped set screw head) and is as free as a bird when I turn the drive shaft in my closed spool style torque tube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 07:43 am:

Same here with locking collar bolt on mine. I used a dremal tool to increase the clearance inside the drive shaft tube rather than grind down the locking collar bolt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 07:51 am:

Got it. Yes, it was the screw interface with the tube interior. Amazing how rough the surface is in the inside of that tube. I coated the interior with sharpie marker, reassembled the housing and let it grind against the high spot. Then used a grinder. Didn't have to do this on my last rear rebuild.

Now that the high spot is gone it has the potential to rotate consistently. Still tight overall when I tighten everything up. Looks like the next step is taking some of the thickness off the new bronze thrust washer. The old steel washers measure around .086 so I guess the extra thickness of the new bronze allows using them with no problem. All the indexing pins are fine.

The instructions mention that a new ring gear usually requires a shim. I would think that the thrust washer being too thick and pushing the ring against the pinion would mean that the ring was making as much contact as possible. Will attack this again after work tonight. This would all be fun if it wasn't being done in a cold small garage ... at night. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:08 am:

PLEASE do NOT grind on the set screw. That is NOT a fix - that is an attempt to force something together that is NOT correctly aligned or is perhaps bent. Having the set screw strike the welded seam in the drive shaft housing is addressed in the instructions. Please call me and let me help before you resort to ruining the drive shaft bearing assembly by modifying it. If I made the bearing wrong I will replace it. I won't do it under warranty if you have modified it and I have to warn that forcing something to work by modifying it is NOT a very smart idea. I know it can get frustrating sometimes but remember that the various parts are nearing 100 years of age and very often things are bent or have been screwed with before you started. Please resist the temptation to take the "easy way" out by grinding on the part that is not at fault or at least should NOT be at fault. Make sure you are mating up correct upper drive shaft housing with same vintage drive shaft spool. I have factory drawings for all of the mating parts involved and something is wrong if your set screw is hitting everywhere on the inside circumference of the housing. If it is hitting in only one place then clearly the housing and spool are not on the same centers since only if the set screw is hitting everywhere is it then oversize.

Please call before you reach for hammer or loctite since both of these are serious enemies of bearings. Loctite migrates. It can and will get into the lube of your bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:16 am:

Hey John,

Not to worry, as I mentioned above .. I didn't grind the screw or the collar ... I found the high spot on the interior of the housing and ground that until it was free. I missed it on the instructions because I had put the bearing together on the drive shaft a month ago and only now assembled it to the tube and then the rear end housing. Should have tested it on the tube when I first assembled it.


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