Source for nut to spin on hub to pull wheel?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Source for nut to spin on hub to pull wheel?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 07:07 am:

Got a rear wheel that just doesn't want to come off and I'm soaking and tapping and pulling as we speak. I've got a short steering wheel puller, but it won't go all the way behind the spokes and grab the drum. Was wondering if I could find a nut with 2 -1/8" x 24 threads, like the brass grease caps, to thread on and then I can grab the back of that nut. Keep mindful of the fin threads and not tugging too hard.

Any suggestions on where to find such a nut? Do they exist? Gotta be cheaper than the $56 wheel pullers sold by the T vendors.

Any direction appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:17 am:

If a driver, have you loosen the nut and driven around the yard? That may loosen it up. If not, get the wheel puller or borrow one. Any other way is just not good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:54 am:

What John said. If driving around with a loose nut doesn't undo it, this is one of those cases where buying or borrowing the tool made for the job is the way to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Horton, Utah on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 09:08 am:

Had the same problem with not being able to get one wheel to come off. Drove around the block several times, tried heat, WD40, hammer etc. Bit the bullet, bought the wheel puller, the wheel is now off and I can proceed with my project. Cheers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 09:28 am:

It's worth having the tool. Check to see if someone with the tool lives near you and will loan it. If not, invest in the tool. You'll find it useful many more times than your current need. And it will save you many hours of work and frustration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 09:33 am:

That hub puller is worth its weight in gold. We should be removing the rear wheels at least annually for inspection, so why fight it without it? And, if you do pull your wheels annually anyway, you'll find they'll come off a lot easier then.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 09:41 am:

On a frame that is not a driver and we have three of already, so just down to one. I guess I can put three back on, roll it off the trailer and tow it around in circles, but I just thought purchasing one nut might solve this problem.

I guess not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 10:27 am:

Wire wheel hubs? You don't state wire or wood wheels.

This type works well on wire wheel hubs and can be rented at a rental equip store and some parts houses claim to loan tools.

Note: this type puller does not work on wood wheel hubs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 10:52 am:

Robert; Check your email. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 10:54 am:

Rear wheel? If it is, there are hub pullers listed on ebay all the time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 11:08 am:

Wooden wheels 21" demountable. I was headed to harbor freight or Northern Tool to look at the large jaw type puller. If it was a large enough spread, it looks like it could go through the spokes and grab the drum, but might clip the backing plate. But the spokes might affect the spacing of the three jaws.

Off to check my email, Dan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 12:28 pm:

I expect a three-jaw puller would bend the brake drum, and maybe grab the backing plate and bend that too. As Tim says, we should be pulling the wheels annually to inspect the brakes, so a puller is a good investment. You might save money buying a used puller, but insist on seeing the threads. Many of the pullers I see at swap meets have threads so damaged that they're unusable. Also, when buying used be aware that they were made for many vehicles and come in many sizes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 12:59 pm:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2800KO.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2800WP.aspx
I have a number of the type in the 2ed link. $40.00 plus shipping. PM me if interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 05:42 pm:

I'm not seeing how anything threaded to the 20 fine thread hub is going to yank this wheel off when heat, cold, hammer, twist, turn and this puller will not get it budge.
We ground the jaws on the puller to grab the drum in the back and it is starting to distort the drum and still no movement. I've left it under pressure and sprayed the heck out of it with Liquid Wrench.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 06:17 pm:

Have you tried a hammer on the end of the puller? When working on stubborn pulleys and flywheels at the school I worked for many years that would usually work.
I had one puller that had the head mushroomed by doing this. Had to do it to get the equipment going again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 06:35 pm:

Robert, your just fighting yourself and are going to wreck things by not getting the appropriate puller. Do you think we ALL can be wrong by telling you that? Do you think Ford was wrong by making such a tool?

The only other alternative (besides the loosening of the nut a turn or two--reinstall the cotter pin), would be to do the following. If you are trying to get the drivers side rear wheel off, jack up the passenger side only until that wheel is off the ground. Take the nut off the drivers side and reverse it so the top of the castle points towards the hub. Screw the nut on until it is flush with the end of the axle. take a 2.5 - 5 lb hammer and give the end of the axle a good hit.

That method is my least favorite, but it can, and does work. I use it on my TT rear axle because the puller for a TT is pricey and I have yet to come across one that was advertised right. I have the regular T puller, it is a good investment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 06:39 pm:

Get the correct puller, see my post on the "what did you do today" thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 06:40 pm:

Robert, see Steve's post of 12.28pm. The load you can put on a steel drum before bending it will not be anywhere near enough to to break loose a stubborn wheel. The load you have left it under at present is also likely to be adequate. Even with wedges between the drum and the spokes to prevent distortion of the drum, the drum will still likely be destroyed.
When you do buy a puller, make sure it has a pinch bolt, preferably with a hex head rather than a screwdriver slot to tighten it around the threads, Wind it on as far as you can so you have maximum thread engagement.With such a puller exerting tension a shock blow on the centre bolt usually works, but you can also add heat into the mix if required.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 07:25 pm:

Here's a trick worth trying. Works great on stuck bolts/nuts but haven't heard on a hub though. Heat the hub up, melt beeswax all around the shaft where the hub hole is. Heat should draw it in. May want to apply several times. Wait a few minutes, then try it with the appropriate hub puller. Allan...the new one's from the vendors do have the pinch bolt with the hex head. An alternative to the beeswax would be iodine. Crazy at it sounds, it may not hurt to jack up that end of the axle as much as you can in order to allow the stuff to get into the hub rather than drip off of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:01 pm:

Get either puller, the 'knock off' or the threaded on big one that fits to the outer hub threads.

You can find these new or used.









With either 'puller' you actually whack the end of the puller bolt or knock off, to shock off the wheel hub. No claw hammer will do, use a 2 1/2lb. to 5 lb. mallet.

The knock off type is threaded all the way on, lift up the opposite wheel in the air, you whack on the wheel on the ground, that pushes the axle shafts back together, separating the hub from the taper of the axle shaft with a big bang. Gloves, and eye protection recommended.

Henry Ford's words not mine!

“If you don't buy the tools you need, you will eventually pay for it, but not have your tool.” Henry Ford

And the first owners manual, for the Model T, the 1909 Parts List of Parts and Instruction Book has this to say:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:38 pm:

If you use the knock off puller, be sure to thread it all the way down to the end of the axle so that your hammer blows will be to the axle and not to the threads. When you use it leave the wheel on the ground and jack up the other wheel.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:41 pm:

Robert, as was said, you can't get anywhere as much pull with a three jaw puller such as you have tried, as you can with the original style puller. The fine threads on the hub will hold MUCH more pressure than anything else that you have tried. Give it a shot. Even if you buy a new puller and just use it a few times, you can probably sell it for much of the original price. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 - 08:49 pm:

Got used puller coming from Dan in AL. Tried this setup to see if we could get it off another way as I was just concerned about these fine threads pulling that much torque.
No one was questioning Sir Henry's infinite wisdom or anyone elses. Lesson learned.

We tapped on the puller (5 lb hammer) and it came off. All is well. Hub is fine. Brake linings were fossilized so I have something to do tomorrow.

Thanks to all. Hopefully this thread will show up in future searches and the next guy won't step on any toes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 03:01 am:

I realize this is after the fact, but I purchased a puller and thread chaser from Langs some years ago. It does a fine job of cleaning up damaged threads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 08:24 am:

@ Robert - You certainly didn't step on any toes. We've all been there. It shows you're enthusiastic about getting things done now. Some other methods work sometimes but the tool works all the time. Glad you finally got the wheel off.

And a special "Atta Boy" goes out to Dan Hatch for, I suspect, stepping up with the tool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 09:32 am:

The best rear puller is the one Dan posted on the right. I haven't seen that one, but I have a Ford script one that is shaped like a cone that I've had for years, and I've seen them sell on ebay for close to $100. They have a knocker in the end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 10:13 am:

I have quite a few different wheel pullers including Ford, Stevens & a couple other odd-ball but of all the years collecting Ford tools, I've never come across the 5-Z-1170 with the impact plunger - anyone have one for sale ? I might have a 5-Z-1172 to trade.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 10:27 am:

All's well that ends well. But I find it interesting, as I have in many other threads, that the original question in the original post was never addressed or answered.

So I presume that a nut with the correct thread size is not available. Or, certainly not easily obtainable to use to chase threads or to provide a grabbing point for a puller.

That would explain the high price for the vendor pullers if the tapping is unique or difficult.

Yes, Dan Hatch has attempted to come through again to save my bacon. Loooking for knock off type puller in his stash of Alabama gold. Perhaps if taking the wheels off in the future is not such a test of patience, I will be inclined to do so and maintain the rear wheels more often.

Again, thanks to all.

Now, to line those brake shoes....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 11:22 am:

Why would you need a special nut when that's what the screw on the hub puller is.

In my book the screw on "HUB KNOCKER" that just screws on the axle, bottom of the heap tool in my OP and should only be used if there is nothing else available.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 11:58 am:

Your right. I'm wrong.

You win. I loose.

You are correct. I am incorrect.

I don't need a nut. I need the puller.

I don't want a nut. I have to have your puller.

There are no stupid answers, only stupid questions.

I get it . . .

this is me moving on to the next project. Lining brake shoes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Landry, Hudson, NH on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 01:15 pm:

Robert - just because you didn't get the answer you wanted doesn't mean that everybody here isn't trying to help you. The vast accumulated experience here says that the correct wheel puller is the way to go. (and that a big nut isn't) Personally, if the nuts you are looking for were a dime a dozen at the local hardware store, I wouldn't use one to pull a stubborn wheel the way you suggest. Without the pinch bolt that is on the puller, there is going to be some play against the threads and I wouldn't trust it to not strip them. Sometimes it just pays to have the right tool, even if it's a bit pricey. IMO, this wheel puller is one of those times. The other one that immediately comes to mind is the exhaust nut wrench.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 02:07 pm:

Bashing on the screw of a wheel puller without a plunger will eventually net you one as shown below. Luckily, I was able to save the puller body, but it also has some of the threads raked out of it and is no longer in primo condition. When the whole works is screwed down tight, it is essentially a single unit with the differential and you are transferring shock through the most vulnerable parts. If you must shock something, you're better off to either do it on the puller body (still potentially bad for the hub threads) or, better yet, the hub itself.




When reassembling, make sure the tapers are clean, a nice fit, and refrain from using oil or anti-seize. Almost universally, the rule on tapered assemblies is to reassemble dry and, if you do so, it should pop apart the next time without having to wield any excess force. If you oil the taper, when torqued to the same rate vs. one that is dry, imagine how the hub is squeezing on there. On less robust parts, like pulleys and such, you can actually split the part as a result of lubricating it.


Below is a hub puller equipped with a plunger in the event anyone is unclear about what Steve described. This particular one isn't Model T sized. These are okay to lightly whack because you're actually pushing the axle away from the hub rather than bashing a solid assembly and potentially doing damage to the differential and the puller itself. Since they move as separate assemblies, it takes less force to persuade the parts to separate rather than hoping it will occur by shock.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Drone-Ypsilanti, MI on Thursday, March 23, 2017 - 03:04 pm:

If you have safety hubs make sure and remove the locking bolt. Also, Everyone is right get the correct puller.

Patrick from Ypsi.


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