Chasing starter gremlins

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Chasing starter gremlins
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrett on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 09:13 am:

Found loose starter stud - took starter apart and found the stud wasn't soldered to the copper strap connected to the field coils, but noticed it was only clamped to it with a small pin to grip the copper strap. The fit was poor, so I tried to squeeze it back together with vice grips. Is that correct or should it be soldered? Doesn't look too sturdy to me. What's the best fix?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 09:24 am:

solder is your friend.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Cascisa - Poulsbo, Washington on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 09:45 am:

Silver Solder is a better friend.

Be_Zero_Be


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 11:14 am:

Mike
This is the most common cause of Model T Ford starting motor failure.
Both Jack and Bob are correct.
If the field winding is still inside the starter case clean the connection well and use a 250-350 Watt soldering iron and flow solder over the buss bar to bolt connection. Cleanliness is important to a quality solder connection.
A new pinned and Silver soldered is much stronger, but is hard to use because of the high melting temperature required in and around the cotton wrapped field windings.
You can entirely replace the buss bar/through case wall pinned bolt with a silver soldered part which is much stronger and will last forever if not abused.
1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 12:00 pm:

If you're going to solder it in place, use the lead free plumbers solder, its stronger that regular solder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 12:09 pm:

That is called "hard soldering" and requires temperatures above 850 degrees. Too high for soldering irons and requires a torch. Inside a starter case is no place for a torch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrett on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 12:16 pm:

Thanks guys - good info. I see I have some work to do since the copper strap show above is twisted in my starter from years of cranking down the nut on the stud. Looks like I'll need to remove it and get everything back straight again!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 12:23 pm:



The dreaded Starter-Gremlin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrett on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 04:39 pm:

Wait til I get my hands on him, I'll moider 'em, why, I outta....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 10:51 pm:

I have been wondering about the starter studs, I found this early on when I bought my first T last year, I have mentioned it twice now on posts when some one has starter or starting problems, I had began to wonder if my starter had a non-original rebuilt! Yes I did resolder and double nutted the stud so a wrench can hold the stud from twisting when attaching the cable. First thing some one will do if having a start problem is retighting connections and the stud gets broken loose!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 10:46 am:

"That is called "hard soldering" and requires temperatures above 850 degrees."

Lead-free solder is not hard solder, according to: https://www.paceworldwide.com/pacenter/soldering/lead-free-vs.-leaded-solder

"The primary difference between tin/lead and lead-free solders, from a rework and repair standpoint, is the temperatures required to form a proper intermetallic bond. For the most widely used tin/lead alloys such as Sn60 Pb40 or more commonly Sn63 Pb37 (eutectic), the melting point is 361F (183C). The most commonly used lead-free alloy, Sn96.5 Ag3.0 Cu0.5, commonly referred to as SAC 305, has a melting point of 422F (217C) to 428F (220C)."

I've used lead-free solder to repair a starter stud using a soldering iron, so don't say it can't be done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 10:50 am:

Pretty sure Ron was appending his previous post and not claiming that lead-free was hard solder


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