Tie down of a T an open trailer

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Tie down of a T an open trailer
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coleman-Grand Marais MN/Detroit MI on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 08:20 pm:

There have been lots of posts on the general topic, but I remain confused,. Just got a good deal on a 16' 2-axle, with electric brakes, trailer that I hope to use to haul my '23 touring short to medium distances. The fellow I bought it from said it best to cross the straps, but the rear axle to the front tie pads, and the front axle to the rear tie pads. Not certain that I have seen this illustrated here. I would also likely cross the front with a 2x6 chock spanning the trailer in front of the,front tires. Thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. D16' Utility Trailer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 08:41 pm:

David,

I wake up & go to bed each day confused ....

Welcome to the Club .... :-)

Thanks for the image of your trailer.

Don't use those recessed d-rings for starters - they may not hold.

That frame does not look like it has much room to weld on the top - might be room to weld d-rings on the side.

If not you can bolt some d-rings thru the wood deck & use another piece of wood underneath the decking for reinforcement.

D ring here:

@ http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/smartstraps-heavy-duty-surface-mount-d- ring-3-666-lb?cm_vc=-10005

Install (2) at the front & (2) at the rear.

You can buy axle straps to attach at the frame
or other structural member(s).

Axle strap here:

@ http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/smartstraps-axle-strap-31-in-10-000-lb? cm_vc=-10005

You can use ratcheting cable straps to fasten the axle stap(s) to the d-ring(s).

Ratcheting cable straps here:

@ http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/raider-secure-it-1-piece-2-in-x-14-ft-r atchet-strap-3500-lb-capacity?cm_vc=-10005

All of these should be available at a Tractor Supply near you.


Good Luck !


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Thursday, March 30, 2017 - 08:51 pm:

The criss cross method is what I use to tie down my other vehicle and will do so on my T when I first haul it.
I started rachet strapping my WWII jeep front axle to the front of the trailer and the rear axle to the rear of the trailer , put in some wheel chocks and tighten away. A long haul truck driver saw us at a rest stop and suggested that we were just stretching our jeep and possibly pulling out U joints and driveshafts. So we now crunch out jeep together rather than pull it apart.

We've got stake pockets on our trailer and special clips on the end of our rachet straps that allow us to insert them into the pockets and the clip onto the upper lip and will not fall out with no tension on them. I used to hate trying to keep tension on a strap to keep it clipped in while attaching.

And one other small tip. if you use rachet straps, put the rachet on the passenger side so that if you have to pull over and check the rachet or tighten them, your not standing in traffic while doing so.

Enjoy your trips. Every drive is a parade and every stop is a car show.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coleman-Grand Marais MN/Detroit MI on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 02:04 pm:

Thanks Freighter Jim and Robert!

Jim, based on your concern I checked out the D-ring assembly. The assembly is through-bolted with heavy bolts and there is a large steel backing plate underneath (ca. 5/15" thick) so I think that I am good there.

I do have some ratchet straps, and will get more if needed. Robert mentioned that the ones with snap-shut ends, as opposed to simple hooks, are preferable. That makes sense to me for minimal additional investment..

I am now motivated to strap her down with the criss-cross method with the rear-end strapped to the front eyes, etc.

Again, thanks, d


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 02:55 pm:

David, cross strapping is a good idea but hooking the front to the back and back to front is not necessary, there is not a human strong enough to pull the car apart with ratchet straps, back axle to back rings and front to front it won't jump around or move sideways long straps front to back will let the car jump up as much as five foot if you hit a big bump, I have used a open trailer and been all over the country on tours with no problems.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Olson on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 03:08 pm:

5 feet!! Now that is a jump worthy of Evil Knievil!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 03:25 pm:

I always wondered witch way the T would be pointing if you ditched it hard when strapping front to back and back to front?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 05:12 pm:

If you need good advise on DOT required hold downs,ask your local state trouper. This is best done when you are not towing anything. Rule of thumb is if your strap can come loose and unhook,you are in serious trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 05:42 pm:

David, if I was using your trailer, I would first load the T and get it sitting where you have optimal load on the towball. Then I would make a bar to bolt to the side rails and fix it so the front tyres are against it. Then you can tie the car forward against the bar with straps around the front axle. This way there is no real load on the axle and you are not trying to stretch your T. At the rear, I use a short tiedown on the outer ends of the axle, just to stop it hopping and moving sideways on the deck. These could be anchored around the vertical strut to the front of the tail lights on the trailer.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bruce Spainhower - Portland, Oregon on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 06:11 pm:

Here's how I do mine. Running the straps completely front to back and back to front isn't necessarily a good idea, but some offset is. That secures the car both side to side and front to back.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 06:12 pm:

Let's add to the confusion.

Look under the car and carefully examine the front end.
You will see that the front axle is held in place by the ball at the end of the wishbone.
In fact the little ball is the only thing that stops the axle from moving forward.
If you tie the rear axle toward the back and the front axle toward the front you put all the stress on that little ball.

I always tie the to the frame in the front and axle in the rear.
I also cross the the tie downs front and back to stop the vehicle from moving to the side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 06:15 pm:

I'll add this -
If Bruce pulls too tight or the car moves backwards too hard it could pull the ball out of the socket.
Or at least put a lot of stress on it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill's Auto Works Wakeman, Ohio on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 06:40 pm:

Bruces' picture is the correct way to tie down a "T" The vehicle will never move backwards as hard as it will move forward in a panic stop. I do not think the OP is going to try to do "wheelstands" while towing LOL. As for the D rings, since you checked to see that they are plated underneath, they are the way to go. Nothing against "E" tracks, I have used them many times, but quality "D" rings are always stronger.
Bill Squires(owner)
Bill's Auto Works


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Thomas - Centerville, Iowa on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 07:08 pm:

By crossing the straps, you all realize that you have effectively doubled the load on the straps. I strap straight ahead, and then add two more, smaller, straps, crossing them. It doesn't take much to keep a car from moving side to side, but the real stress is keeping if from moving forward or backward in an accident.

The last thing you want is to find your model T coming off that trailer in an accident.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip thompson on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 08:02 pm:

The crossed straps should work well. It's like hauling a feather. I haul heavy tractors and only use chain but I use straps on the t.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 08:30 pm:

Bill - if someone cinches down on the straps hard they can pull the ball out of the socket - have seen it pulled out on older T worn T's when just backing up.

The ball assembly is very strong when the force is toward the rear but the springs can allow it to pop out when the force is forward.

I'll admit that the rearward force would not be high during acceleration but there are circumstances that could make them high.
I would prefer to be safe that sorry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 09:02 pm:

If you pull the wishbone out of the socket with your strap, I would say you got lucky. There's plenty worse ways to find out your equipment is worn out.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill's Auto Works Wakeman, Ohio on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 10:16 pm:

Posts like this are always humorous to me & I rarely post on them, because everybody thinks their way is the right way. That is ok, it is part of what goes on in a public forum.
With 3 million accident-free transport miles over the last 34 years & conservatively 2000 vehicles transported, I consider myself qualified. I cannot tell you how many of those 2000 vehicles were "T's" (quite a few) I ALWAYS cross my straps& they are NOT cheap junk straps. Never pulled a ball out of a socket & never broke a strap, so I will continue to use my method for my customers.
God Bless
Bill Squires(owner)
Bill's Auto Works


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, March 31, 2017 - 10:50 pm:

Fred, if the car is pulled up to a bar crossing the trailer, there is NO stress on the ball of the wishbone. All the tiedowns do is keep the tyres on the crossbar.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 10:30 am:

Allen that is a true statement.
If it is not pulled the bar and the straps are pulled tight the stress is on the ball.


99.9% of the time there is no problem.
If you want to see what happens just try doing it without the motor in the car and see what happens to the front axle.

Just saying


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 01:33 pm:

I do not like the way Bruce ties the rear axle. I have seen it done that way by others but would be easy to bend the rear axle torque tubes, especially when you hit a bump and even more dangerous with the early clam shell type rear ends.

It takes a bit longer to tie down, but I use 8 straps. I attach to the axle right where the spring shackle is attached. That way you let the spring take some of the strain. I put D rings on each side opposite the center of the running board toward the edge of the trailer. I put two D rings in the front corner of the trailer and in the rear corner of the trailer. All the D rings have at least one large bolt through the steel frame of the trailer. I take one strap from the front axle and one from the rear axle and strap to the center D rings on each side. Then one forward to the front corner from each side of the front axle and one to the rear corner from each side of the rear axle. The straps will pull to the same side where attached to the axle and do not cross.

This has been used for at least 400 mile trip several times without any problems.

I have tried in the past strapping to the frame, but find that the car and trailer bounce much more when strapped to the frame than when strapped to the axles. With the T strapped to the axles, it will ride on its own springs and much more smooth.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coleman-Grand Marais MN/Detroit MI on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 02:13 pm:

Hey Norm: Do you have a picture of that, or maybe a little sketch? Thanks for the input. david

PS: Even more ideas than I would have guessed 😀


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 06:58 pm:

I don't have a picture on the trailer and my wife carries the camera so never know what pictures she will take. When we were in Germany we visited some people which we think are distant relatives. She got a picture of their clock!

I will try a sketch and scan it for you.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 07:19 pm:



Here is my sketch. Each strap is placed from the D ring around the axle and back to the D ring.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 09:39 pm:

Here's how we always did it.

Make sure the differential is locked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 09:49 pm:

I use axle straps and the cross method. No problems with any of my cars but normally don't pull more than 200- 300 miles in any direction. I always drive slow as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Saturday, April 01, 2017 - 11:55 pm:

I'd love to have a copy of the U-Haul car trailer.

Easiest to use open trailers I've ever come across and they pull like a dream.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coleman-Grand Marais MN/Detroit MI on Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 09:11 am:

Thank you Norm.

Now that I think about it they call these "spring lines" when I dock my sailboat.

Wil give this a shot first trek out.

David

PS:. Don is totally correct about the U-Haul car trailer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 10:35 am:

David,
The trailer that you have is one of the easiest trailers to safely haul your T around. Run the front tires into the front rail and use 2 short high quality ratchet straps and tie it forward and down by the front axle,just out side the spring perch's. And for good measure, I throw one over the top of the rear axle on one side and then under the the torque tube then back over the top of the rear axle on the other side, and tie it to the sides of the trailer just behind the rear tires. Remember this is a 90+ year old vehicle, don't try to destroy it by over tightening the ratchet straps, the main thing is that they don't come undone. The suspension of the car will take care of it. It is best to have a few sand bags to lay on your floor boards because they will blow out and it is best to have the top down and a boot on it. I have never had one move and once, to avoid being involved in a 5 car pile up,
I had to brake, swerve, and throttle so hard that the trailer was sliding around . There was oil and antifreeze sprayed on the side of my T but nothing that a clean rag and some toilet paper couldn't fix. phewwww


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 11:20 am:

I tie my T down exactly the way that Fred Dimock suggests. I also have a 4" X 4" bolted to the floor in front of the front tires to act as a stop. My trailer is enclosed, but that should have nothing to do with the way the T is tied down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Benedict, Humboldt, TN on Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 08:00 pm:

David, Here is how I tie down my coupe. I agree with Jim, That D rings when installed improperly are not a good choice. I happen to like them very much. My D rings are located so that each one is bolted through an angle cross brace and also have a steel plate under the nuts of the bolts. This not only bolts the D ring to the trailer frame but also bolts the 2x10 to the frame. Using the basket straps also takes the strain off the critical components of the chassis. Everybody has their own preferred way. Car never moves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 09:57 pm:

hmmmm... interesting. Not the strap stuff, just the number of photos and recommendation to put the entire engine weight of the T all the way forward towards the tongue of the tow trailer.

I always try to equalize the qeight of the load over the tandem axles. But the two photos of T's being strapped in and one post describing the procedure all have the T engine all the way over the tongue.

I haven't towed my War Wagon yet, but just picked up a rolling chassis and winched it up by the rar end and put the rear end all the way against the front frame of the trailer over the tongue. The engine was just towards the rear end over the rear axle. Towed great.

Any thoughts on weight distribution?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 10:05 pm:

Good "rule of thumb" is 10% to 15% of total weight on hitch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Sunday, April 02, 2017 - 10:27 pm:

Don't over-think it...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 05:49 am:

Robert, an equalized load on any trailer is not a good idea. There has to be some tongue weight or else the load will bounce up and down. Not good. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter B. Ratledge on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 07:39 am:

I tie down my 1911 T like Bob Benedict does with straps around each wheel connected to D rings that have been installed with bolts that go thru the floor. I used to tie around front and rear axle,but it would rub the paint off. My trailer is enclosed. I have tongue weight and a sway bar. I am able to do the speed limit, with very little sway when semi's pass me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 08:46 am:

I load my T backwards. It keeps the top from blowing out like a parachute. Of course the top needs to be tied down which ever way you choose to pull.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 08:48 am:

I have a homemade trailer that was built in 1950 out of parts from a '37 Ford.

The builder set the axle too far forward (it's evident that he was trying to perfectly balance the trailer on the axle) and if you haul the trailer empty, it sways back and forth and is pretty scary.

However, as soon as I bolted an old ammo can to the tongue (and keep a bottle jack and a bunch of other heavy stuff in there), it started pulling straight and true.

It's just further evidence that you have to put some weight on the tongue if you want them to pull right. Having a perfectly balanced load over the axle(s) is not the way to do it and is actually pretty dangerous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 09:21 am:

Lesson learned. We don't tow far, but we want to do it safely. We'll move some weight further forward from now on.

I'm old, but never to0 old to learn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 10:43 am:

Now that we've got that settled, what kind of oil should I use? :-)

My advice on towing: Always use chains or straps.


Oops!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 10:58 am:

I use straps. My wife won't let me borrow her chains.

I'll be here all week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gustaf in Idaho on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 02:36 pm:

Robert,
Another reason to have the weight forward is to stop the trailer from swaying back and forth, this is a very bad situation that can only be stopped by speeding up. The important thing is to make sure you do not exceed the draw bar weight for the tow vehicle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 03:11 pm:

It doesn't matter how far you are towing, the tie down is the same.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 04:57 pm:

I thought this thread would slide off the current list by now.

Steve reminds me that any strap is better than none.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Clayton Swanson on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 05:51 pm:

trailers are for sissys


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