MANUFACTURES NUMBER-I FOUND IT

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: MANUFACTURES NUMBER-I FOUND IT
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 07:24 pm:

MANUFACTURES #: 80404702
My limited research tells me that it was manufactured in 1923. It is a Touring
Are there any serial number, VIN or manufactures number experts who can shed some light on what, when and where this car may have originated?

The number was stamped on the RH sheet metal front floorboard riser.
Thank you, Paul in Tacoma


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, April 03, 2017 - 08:53 pm:

Paul,

There is still lots for us to learn about the Model Ts. And what was probably common knowledge to a good 1923 Ford repairman is sometimes obscure or even unknown to many and probably in some cases to all of us today.

If you have some photos of the numbers that might be helpful. Below are a couple of right front floorboard risers that are from bodies that were produced by the Beaudett (also spelled Beaudette and usually referred to as Pontiac in the USA Ford Motor Company records.)


Above is the Beaudett body "B" and number from
Dave Hjortnaes 1920 touring (Thank you Dave!) You can easily see the "B" at the beginning. The year was prestamped at the end in smaller size numbers -- in this case "20." Note -- I do not see a "month" number as we see on the earlier 1914-1918ish Beaudett body numbers.


Note there is a letter "B" at the beginning of Doug's number (Thank you Doug)!

The numbers on the right hand floorboard riser are NOT the Vehicle Identification Number. Ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm
JUN 26, 1915 Factory Letter
"Hereafter when ordering body panels for 1915 cars, please give both the car and body numbers. The body number will be found on the right sill just inside the front door. This number will be preceded by a letter which indicates by whom the body was made.
"The above information is necessary as panels for bodies made by our various suppliers vary somewhat."

Note in the case of the Beaudett body numbers they also normally include a year and month code from around 1914 to until July 20, 1922. Why no Beaudett date codes after Jul 20, 1922 Ford stopped purchasing bodies from them (ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/A-B.htm scroll down just before the 1923 year starts).
That practice of placing the body number on the right hand floor board riser was discontinued completely with the introduction of the 1924 high cowl open car bodies (touring & runabout). Why? Because the high cowl USA open bodies were apparently all produced by Ford USA.
So to better date your car you would want to look at many items. Originally the engine serial number was used to identify the car. But for many of our cars the engines have been changed. And some of us have changed them also. A 1923 engine and transmission will drop into any 1909-1927 Ford with only minor changes required (Change the floor board pedal openings if they don’t match, change the cylinder head water outlet to match the radiator. Change the fan and fan bracket if you are mounting it on a 1916 or earlier brass radiator car etc. ) So to date your car you would want to look at many of the parts. Are most of them from the same general date range? Or do you have numerous parts from all years? [If you haven’t listened to Johnny Cash’s One Piece at a Time” it explains that multiple dates are possible even on non Fords see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM ]

So if you would like help in dating your car – I would recommend posting or sending some photos of the entire car, and areas such as the running boar braces – do they have holes for both the pressed steel and cast iron running board braces? Does the body have the wider 1917-1921 for touring and 1917-1922 for runabout arm rests? What type of door latches does the car have? Windshield to body brackets. Top irons. Top rests. Oval or round gas tank etc. And yes, the engine serial number along with casting date if available a USA produced 1923 would not normally have a casting date and any history on the car. I.e. an original never restored one owner car or an unknown history etc.

It can be a lot of fun tracking down information on our cars and when possible finding a logical date range when they were likely produced.

Good luck with your search.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off
PS:
It doesn’t impact a 1923 Model T, but for the 1909-1911 USA cars and 1909-1920’s Canadian cars: Originally the Model T Ford engine serial number was stamped onto the ID patent plate up through Oct 6, 1911 (ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc11.htm see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/231172.html?1313980815
for why even though the Acc. 509, Letter, Ford Archives used the term “Body Numbers” the actually meant the number stamped onto the ID patent plate. Why? Because the engine serial number and body number never agreed except possibly a few really odd coincidental occurrences. But I do not know of any of those occurring – but it might have). [Note for Canadian production the engine serial number and the number stamped on the ID patent plate continued to agree into the 1920s).


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