Stripped thread on Pan Inspection Cover

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Stripped thread on Pan Inspection Cover
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 02:22 pm:

I was removing one bolt at a time on the pan inspection cover, in order to put silicone seal to keep oil from dripping when I came to one bolt that seemed to be stripped. I managed to get it out without realizing that whoever rebuilt the engine had put a nut on the bolt on the inside of the pan. I then sealed the bolt hole with silicone and started the car and began driving when I heard a racket, then I realized what must have happened and that the nut was loose inside the pan. Has this ever happened to anyone and might someone have a remedy short of pulling the engine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 02:32 pm:

Daniel, I would think the easiest fix would be to pull the pan cover and the horseshoe on the inside, and then just re-tap the stripped hole to the next size up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 03:04 pm:

Daniel,

At this point, do you know for a fact that a nut was on the pan bolt that you said felt stripped? Or are you assuming that is the case based on what you have seen and heard -- but without actually knowing for sure?

I.e. did you see a nut and if so how did you see it? (I.e. if you did not remove the inspection cover I don't think you could see it. And if you could see it, then you likely could remove it. )

Or are you assuming that is what happened?

And if you are assuming that is the case, what led you to think that occurred? Longer bolt? Longer bolt stripped at the end but not near the head of the bolt where the horse shoe [part #3101B 1912--1924 or #3101D 1924-1928 Crank Case Lower cover reinforcement] would have stripped it?

Yes, someone could have done that easily "IF" the entire pan was off the block. But it wouldn't make a lot of sense to do that as the "horse shoe" parts that the inspection pan bolts screw into have been readily available for a long time. Of course we have seen repairs where they were made so someone could get the car home (the belt or bacon rind in the connecting rod etc. ).

As John recommended -- removing the pan inspection cover and looking there first would be a better first step than pulling the engine. Also removing the transmission inspection cover an looking there might be helpful.

For sure if you have any type of nut or any other loose object in the engine -- don't run the engine. It could cause a lot of damage.

Do you know the history of the engine? Has anything changed recently in addition to you putting silicone on the inspection pan bolts?
Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 04:07 pm:

John, thanks for mentioning how the bolts fasten on the inside of the pan, I did not know. So is the Horse shoe inside easily removable if the inspection cover was off?

Hap, I just drained the oil in hopes that the nut might be at the drain hole but it was not. I just removed the trans inspection cover and cannot see anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 04:25 pm:

Daniel, the horseshoe just sits on the inside lip of the crankcase, you'll probably just need to turn the crankshaft to the best position to allow you to slide them up and out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 06:00 pm:

Hap has asked some good questions. You need to be able to answer each with certainty.

As for your removing a bolt that had a nut on the back...the last assembler would have to have been a magician to pull that job off...I could only suppose that the nut was glued in place prior and then tightened. You may have broken it loose...all sounding quite implausible to me, frankly. My '13 had two holes stripped and someone had 2 nuts brazed in place to repair the bracket. They are VERY close to the rods and I filed them to give sure and certain clearance.

I would more suspect that you have installed a long bolt in the wrong place and a rod is clipping it. There are a couple places where a long bolt will not cause trouble and a few where it would cause just what you're hearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 06:34 pm:

Scott, Actually, when I removed the stripped bolt, it acted like a nut was on the end of it. Now I have removed the inspection cover and found that the nut is in fact not there and must have flipped down into the transmission part of the pan. Also, by Hap's description, there should have been a horse shoe plate with tapped holes for the bolts, but I find that to exist only in the forward half of the engine. The rear half has nuts on all 8 holes. The nuts seem to be fastened somehow to the pan, except for the one that broke loose and is now perhaps in the bottom of the oil pan under the trans. Any remedy suggestions are sure and very welcome from anyone who has a similar experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 06:47 pm:

Remove the starter and turn the engine over. Look thru the starter mounting hole and see if your nut is attached to the magnets. If so fish it out. If not, then drain the oil and tap on the oil pan and see if you can tap it down to the bottom. If it will come out then ok. If not push it up against the magnets and fish it out thru the starter hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 07:59 pm:

You MUST find the missing nut!

Running the engine can cause catastrophic damage if a magnet picks it up and gets wedged. The damage will start with a broken magnet then the broken magnet will cause the damage to domino and possibly break the transmission housing and crankshaft. We've seen it here before.

Do NOT run the engine!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 05:27 am:

Ted, Stephen great ideas, thanks a lot. Just after I started driving the noise sounded like a high pitched swirling sound for a few seconds, then stopped. I was able to immediately drive it back to the garage in one minute without further noise, so hopefully nothing was damaged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 09:04 am:

Daniel, you are among one of the unluckiest people in "T"s today. It is astounding that anyone would have glued/brazed/stuck a nut to the inside of the pan due to the huge risk of what happened actually came to fruition. You have my sympathies sir. The advice you're getting to find and remove that rascal is spot on, sorry to say...

Now you see why the 'horseshoe' exists...there should have been one for the rear...

It is possible, sometimes, to fish stuff out, but may take more time/trouble/effort than removing engine and inverting, etc.

In some instances the nut can be fished or moved to the point that it will stick to a flywheel magnet and be made to come up to the starter opening where it can be plucked out. Folks who do that rank up there with LOTTO winners.

There is danger of damage during starter removal if you don't know the proper sequence, so if you go that route, be sure to ask for advice prior to that job

best of luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 09:30 am:

Once you locate and eliminate the missing nut, the obvious next step is to remove all the others and and install a proper 3101-D horseshoe. I don't believe it's being reproduced, which means there are a lot of them still around. Check with the usual parts dealers. Sometimes home-made improvisations are ingenious, but this one was extremely ill-advised.

A more general comment: In case of a stripped-out hole, I wouldn't resort to the next size up. I'd remove the horseshoe, fill the hole, and redrill and tap it for the correct size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 09:50 am:

Steve said what I would do


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 11:08 am:

Get another horseshoe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 12:12 pm:

Larry, Thanks for chiming in on my little problem. By the way, this did not happen to the 25 pickup, but rather my 24 Touring, so at least I can be thankful for that, and of course all the great advise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 12:50 pm:

Hmm, was just thinking (I know, DANGER!) that a T only has 20 horses and your T has apparently thrown a shoe, so it might run better when you put one in!
OK, OK, I'll just slink away now. . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 02:06 pm:

You could pul the engine and replace the pan. Good pans are not that hard to find.


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