My spider senses detect a cracked head....

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: My spider senses detect a cracked head....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 04:49 pm:

Next messageBottom of page Link to this message By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 04:16 pm:

Went to the T's storage and cleaned rhetoric fuel system... sediment bulb screen, carburetor bowl, and needle valve, etc. Did the normal prep work, and she started right up and seemed to be nonetheless for her winter stay. About 15 miles out, though.... was loosing power and speed, and could hear what sounded like a pulsing 'pish-pish-pish". Pulled over and found my problem.... well... at least the obvious one:



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 05:18 pm:

Hi Dennis,

Well, dang. No one wants to see that. But, If the damage is only in the head then you have an easy fix. I would not freak out at this point. Source another head and gasket, install them and run it. If no additional leaks appear, Hallelujah! Good luck with your project, Bill

PS. The head might be repairable. I would not scrap it just yet. B.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 05:26 pm:

That crack near the pan rail probably means really bad news.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Sumner lapeer mi on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 05:50 pm:

Dennis,Private message sent.I have a replacement head for you in Lapeer mi. Les Sumner


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 06:20 pm:

Don't think that's a crack near the pan rail - think it's flaking paint. Think Bill's right - source another head and try her.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 06:55 pm:

Yes... I hope it's just cracked paint... hope to take a better look at it tonight! Les.... thanks! I'll pop the head and check for other issues... if lower end is OK, I have been considering a Z head... but don't want to overwhelm it. If the lower end needs work, then I'll have to look at the whole picture.. :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 06:57 pm:

I took a pic of that pan rail to remind me , water WAS bubbling there... but didn't know if it was from a crack/leak... or if the dribbled water just pooled there and was bubbling from the heat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 07:00 pm:

Crack on the surface of the head is an easy fix.
Clean it up and put a thin coat of JB weld on it.
I would be more concerned with the block. Especially behind the valve cover.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 07:42 pm:

If there's water bubbling out of that pan railing area, you got a BIG problem!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore, "Island City" MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 09:08 pm:

Sorry Dennis,

I have seen many, many heads just like that. When things start to freeze think of a lake or pond...it freezes on the top first and goes down. The good thing is heads are cheap and that gave some relief when the top let go. I am afraid for your block above the valve chamber in the lower water jacket but usually that can be fixed.

The block just above the pan has no reason to freeze and crack there. Even if somehow your entire upper radiator tank emptied down into the block (very unlikely) the water would have lots of room to expand without damage. It would take gallons of water to break the block down there...more water than many radiators could hold.

I have model T's and tractors also here in Michigan, the tractors are full of antifreeze but not the cars. I don't get cars out much due to my work and running a business so if I do get one out I just fill it with the garden hose and might dump a quart of water pump oil or whatever it is called into the radiator. It is a soluble oil to protect from corrosion but not cold temp. In the fall I open the lower drain cock and ALWAYS watch it drain and run a finish nail up and down to make sure everything drains out. I have had them piss good then stop and run my nail up into it to get it going again. If I only had one car that I drove regularly I would use antifreeze and leave it but some of my cars don't get started for years.

If that is your only Model T I would make sure it has proper 50/50 mix when repaired and not worry about draining. Hope all goes well and your radiator is not damaged.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 09:21 pm:

I agree with you fellas. That's just flaking pint on the pan rail. When I looked at it earlier, I was killing a little time on my phone. Now, that I'm looking a the picture on a bigger screen, it no longer looks like it was smacked by a broken rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 09:25 pm:

Your Spidey senses should be telling you to buy a Z head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 10:07 pm:

Check the block inside the top of the valve spring area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 10:48 pm:

A few shots. Original pistons and valves?
3 of the 4 pistons, I can twist/rotate, and can hear clunking when I do. Loose /worn, where they connect to the crankshaft?

I really haven't seen evidence of a cracked block, yet... but suspect there is work to be done, as long as I'm in there.

Haven't had time to drop the pan yet. Anxious... Xander hesitant, at the same time! :-)










Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 11:01 pm:

Tim, et al... th a BJ's for the tips! How best to check the upper head around the valves? Mostly the two things walled 'c' shaped chambers fore and after?

Don... if I can get the lower half in good enough shape to support it.... I'm think'n about the Z head! Problem is.... there won't be any $$ left after everything else is freshened up!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 11:04 pm:

I think I'd still get some dye penetrant and check that deck surface. It's a bit speedy but cheap insurance!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 11:10 pm:

Spendy, SPENDY, not SPEEDY, SPENDY!!! Now I've got a headache. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 11:21 pm:

My spend your is already too speedy! LOL .... How is it used, for the deck??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 11:23 pm:

Wow.... darn auto-breaker! Meant my spendy is already too speedy!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 11:29 pm:

Haha. I can't talk now. I've got my tangue all tungled from speeding to much enerjy on my last post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Saturday, April 08, 2017 - 11:53 pm:

A good welding supply house sells a kit for checking for cracks. It consists of three different aerosol cans. One is a cleaner, one is a dye penetrant and the third is a developer.

The idea is to start with a very clean surface (thus the cleaner). Once the surface is clean it gets sprayed with the dye penetrant and is allowed to sit for anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes. The idea is for the penetrant to seep its way into any cracks that might exist. Warning, This crap is messy, but it works really good if done right. After the set time has elapsed the surface is wiped clean with a rag soaked with the cleaner. Caution! Get the surface clean but don't soak it down so much that you flush any of the penetrant out of any possible cracks. It's important that all the penetrant is cleaned from the surface to assure a good reading when applying the developer. Once you're comfortable the surface is clean, spray it with developer. Let the block sit and the developer will dry up. As it dries it will draw the penetrant up out of the crack and will show up as a crack line on the surface.

Okay, there's an alternate method if you're comfortable using it.. it involves cleaning the surface with solvent and blowing it dry. Pour denatured alcohol onto the surface and allow it to "soak" into the crack. Wipe the surface dry and sprinkle a very light coating of talc or flour on the surface and watch for the alcohol to be drawn up into the white powder. Paint thinner or lacquer thinner or (?) might be substituted for the alcohol.

I prefer the dye penetrant method. The chances for catching a crack are much better when the process is performed correctly.

Hope this helps, good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Floyd Voie - Chehalis, Washington on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 01:04 am:

Dennis, I'll help you spend more money.....it looks like you have two piece valves. Now would be the time to change them....
Good Luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Sunday, April 09, 2017 - 08:47 am:

Mike ... interesting... never heard of it. Sounds like v a plan! Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, April 11, 2017 - 10:24 am:

Dennis,

How's it going? Any unfortunate discoveries with the block?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 15, 2017 - 11:39 pm:

Jerry ... Unfortunately, I haven't have time to work on it any further. Took a trip up north to Petoskey this weekend to see kids, grandkids... and parents! Hope to drop the pan by Friday's dinner/kick-off get together, though!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Sunday, April 16, 2017 - 09:39 pm:

After getting b acknowledge from San trip to see kids and grandkids this weekend, I took some time before dark to drain the oil and drop the inspection plate.

I wasn't happy to have more water come out than oil. :-( so, I guess it's pull the engine time, and dig as fast as I can. I suspect the water would have trashed the magneto and bands.










Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Sunday, April 16, 2017 - 09:51 pm:

Quite a bit of 'gravel' in the inspection pan also. Cotter pins, babbitt or solder splash, and some b smaller ground bits. :-(




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Sunday, April 16, 2017 - 10:42 pm:

Dennis,
I have several high heads that no one seemed interested in at the Bakersfield swap meet. Would have given you one during your visit to San Diego. The cost of mailing one to you is more than what a high head is worth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 01:46 pm:

Thank you Les Sumner for offering a replacement head.... it was a very pleasant trip up, and had a very enjoyable time chatting with you and your wife, and getting a tour of your vehicles! ... fabulous work!!!


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