Can somebody show me the difference between a later frame and a 1911 frame?
I have the rear cross member of a 1911.
But I need to know if there are any other differences.
I can't seem to post any pictures
How much later? An '11 is pretty close to a '12 or early '13. But mid '13 changed the rear cross member a lot! The rest of the frame is similar to everything through 1915. Then the holes for the firewall bracket changed. In 1917, the holes for front fenders and hood sills changed. In 1919, the battery box was added. About '20, the front cross member changed slightly (became heavier). After that, the running board brackets changed with a couple years of crossover time with both types of holes regardless which brackets were used.
Most of those changes were minor. Many of them can be altered to pass for a few years earlier. So it really boils down to what you are wanting? And how you want (or can) go about getting it.
If you have a "real" 1911 cross member? And want a "real" 1911 frame for a "real" 1911 car? Basically, you would have to get the rest of a "real 1911" frame. You could come very close by using a real '13 to '15 frame as a donor. But to destroy a "real" '15 frame to only come close for an '11? I don't like the idea. Personally, I would rather see that real '15 frame put under a proper well put together '15. Use a '17 to '19 frame for a "close" '11. Frame parts as late as 1925 could be modified and used clear back to 1910. But the farther afield you go, the more difficult it becomes. And the less "close" it will be.
That part is my opinion.
Thank you for all of that input
I guess the question now is what year frames do I have to start with
I currently have three frames
What's the best way to tell what year they are?
All three have the longer rear cross members. Yes I am trying to finish with a 1911 frame.
I could make new side rails instead of altering an existing frame. I can take all of the dimensions off of a 1911
About four years ago, Mark Herdman posted a wonderful study of model T frames.
He gives many details of the frames for each year. One issue some of us may have with it, is that all measurements are in metric. I point this out so that you can be prepared to translate those measurements.
I wish to again thank Mark H for this information! I printed out several pages of it and keep it in my shop to verify frame years when I work on some cars. (I personally have no trouble working in metric.)
You mentioned "longer cross members". I imagine by that you mean longer than the 1913 and earlier cross members? 1926/'27 rear cross members are considerably longer yet, and are what most people mean by "longer cross members". While a person could use a '26/'27 frame to repair or create a frame for a 1911, it would be much more difficult. The frame rails are similar to the earlier ones, but different enough in many ways that such modification would be quite tricky.
Thank you Wayne, that exactly what I needed
I have identified two of my frames, the third frame is at a different location
If you look at the square hole count first
It's pretty easy I have one 1917 and one 1920-21 frame
Thank you for the help Wayne
You are welcome!