1917 Magnito remagnetize issue

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: 1917 Magnito remagnetize issue
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nick grudich on Thursday, April 13, 2017 - 06:52 pm:

My magneto is not working. I am going to try to magnetize it using the Model T manual instructions. I am having an issue before I zap it with six 6 volt batteries. This is what I have done and the problem I am having:
1) Car is facing West
2) Compass is in position on top of the trans per instructions. 1 3/4 and 2 inches from centerline of magneto to outside edge of compass.
3) I rotate engine by hand
4) With Trans cover plate on, I rotate engine so compass needle is facing the front of the car. I have N of the compass facing the front of the car. This is the setting that the manual says and I would think that I could now zap it with the batteries.
5) The problem is that when I remove the trans cover plate, I cannot get the compass to rotate to the front of the car. Again, the instructions say to remove the plate.

The cover plate is magnetized but removing does not allow the compass to come in position when I rotate the engine.

Does anyone know what I am doing wrong?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, April 13, 2017 - 08:30 pm:

I for one do not understand what you mean by cover plate? Magneto contact? You don't use the outside edge of the compass, measure to it's center line. Am I correct in understanding you are doing an in car recharge?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Thursday, April 13, 2017 - 10:50 pm:

Take a look at the detailed instructions and picture in this previous post.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/159978.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nick grudich on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 07:50 am:

Mark,
The cover plate is the large plate on the transmission. When removed, the gears are exposed.
Thomas,
I will look at the detailed instructions you referenced
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nick grudich on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 07:56 am:

I looked at the details in the link. Please look at my question 5 above. The max my compass moves is 90 degrees. I cannot get it to rotate completely towards the front of the car. That is where I have the "N" of the compass located per the dimensions on the detailed link.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 10:47 am:

The compass needle is the guide to know which pairs of magnets are aligned for the '+' and '-' of the recharge. You don't want to mix it up.

Compass 'N' pointer is normally darkened. The 'N' ,as opposites attract, will point to an 'S' pair of magnets. The compass location on the hogshead is a determined distance for the correct location of where a pair of magnets will be over a field coil.

So with charge by '+' on the mag terminal, and '-' as the ground strike end. Check to have 'N' pointer of the compass attracted to the pair of S magnets on the left side of the mag terminal.







Example below shows 'N' pointer on compass pointing (attracted) to a set of 'S' magnets.




So use the compass to point and determine what pair of magnets are aligned as you strike a charge, and then rotate 4 pairs of magnets and check again with the compass before striking again, for each 1/4 turn of the crank to complete a full recharge.



The above compass is set at that pre-determined distance to present a pair of magnets over a field coil, but note, the 'N' is now opposite, pointing away, indicating an 'N' pair of magnets is presented, incorrect for recharge using '+' charge on the mag terminal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 11:31 am:

Here is how I line up the magnets with the field coil poles, when doing an in the car mag recharge.

My experience says polarity of the magents isn't that important. If you hit the field coil with enough power it will swap the polarity of they magnets. So, to align the magnets I don't use the compass trick. Often the magnets are too weak to move the needle. Rather I look inside the transmission inspection cover at the back of the flywheel. I rotate the engine until the brass magnet screws are at an equal distance apart from the magneto plug. I then hit the field coil with electricity and reassemble the inspection cover.



Sorry for the poor illustration

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 12:23 pm:

"My magneto is not working." Does that mean a weak current, or none at all? If the latter, I suspect the problem is something other than the magnets needing a charge. Even weak magnets should produce some current.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 12:29 pm:

So you have removed the hogs head/transmission cover?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 02:45 pm:

Mark, if you're asking in reference to my post...

The only parts that are removed are the 6 hole trapezoid shaped inspection cover, and the magneto post terminal(The mag post is removed for charging purposes).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 03:33 pm:

I have never seen any instructions that the inspection plate need to be removed to do in car recharge. It would not be any more magnetized then any other part of the hogs head (with the possible exception removing it to be able to see the screws as suggested above). You set the compass on the outside top of the hogs head to get your reading not inside. It almost sounds like you are trying to mix two different way to do the job, one with the hogs head on and one with it off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 03:56 pm:

Steve
A thought; if there is a "small" short in the mag coil, then a recharge attempt could well "burn" it out. Also by removing the mag contact from the hogshead, it presents a great opportunity to remove any debris that could be contributing to the issue.
On a safety note, I would prefer to have the transmission cover fully attached. That way , in the very remote possibility of a fire starting associated with a short circuit, it will rapidly smother from lack of oxygen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 04:01 pm:

Mike I was referencing to his removing the plate in the his first post.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By nick grudich on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 04:04 pm:

I followed Dan's instructions and Magnito is now working. I am almost embarrassed to say what my issue was. If you notice in my explanation I was talking about repeatability of the direction on the compass. Since I was not getting repeatability of the compass I did not know where I was at. I had a bad compass. There was a small air bubble that was causing a drag on the needle of the compass. The Trans cover had nothing to do with the problem. I just got lucky because the bubble on the compass landed in the same spot and I got a repeat on the compass when I had the cover off. Anyway, went to Walmart. Bought a new $5 compass followed the procedure and everything worked perfectly. I can now operate on the Magneto. Thanks Dan and thanks to everyone for the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 04:12 pm:

Sweet! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 05:01 pm:

Nick

That is great news! And really enjoyed your phone call to me in trying to help. I guess maybe a little impatient with you, so sorry :-(

Didn't what to sound like a professor of magnetism which I am not! Anyway, after your call noted the post by Mike about maybe your magnets had no strength to pull the pointer of the compass. We discussed that too but dismissed it as thought would be the magnets would still have residual to pull the compass pointer.

Glad to know a faulty compass was our mutual grief :-)

Happy magneto now for sure!


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