It will eat your tires PDQ...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: It will eat your tires PDQ...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, April 13, 2017 - 11:22 pm:

...if your front end isn't properly aligned.


The rear tires still have all their deep tread.


The fronts, with a little over 100 miles on them, have noticeable wear. I checked the alignment and found that the gather, rather than being the prescribed ", was almost 1"! I don't know how it got that way, but this is a stupid mistake I won't make again. My rule will always be to check alignment when installing new wheels or tires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Thursday, April 13, 2017 - 11:38 pm:

An inch and three quarters! you were pushing those poor tires sideways down the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 12:16 am:

Ouch.
Your gas mileage will go up now tho.
Food for thought for many of us.
I need to do the same for my 5-7 mile New Zealand Firestone Gum Dipped Black tires.

How's your toe in/gather?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 12:33 am:

I've got it to just a hair under " now. According to the book, that should be good to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 12:39 am:

Apart from the brown issue, if anyone ever needed another reason to avoid modern white tyres here it is...100 miles and you need a new tyre soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 04:07 am:

We'll see. These are not current. They're old New Zealanders. The rears are still OK, so I think the problem was the bad alignment, not the tyres.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 08:07 am:

Well Mr. Steve, now you will be able to join the WTTB Club! (White Tire Turning Brown). Here's hoping not, for both our sakes. Picking up my last two this morning from the tire shop, so let the waiting begin! When I installed last year's White/Brown tires they wore pretty much evenly. Have to admit I don't remember checking the toe-in, but I might have. I definitely will THIS time!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 09:53 pm:

Steve,was the steering real touchy,with a tendency to 'dart'with the slightest turn of the wheel?
I bought a T that acted like the front spring perches were backwards.They were not.Further investigation revealed about the same amount of toe in as you had.
Reason l ask,l am gradually putting together a list of ills with unusal causes for a young T guy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 10:30 pm:

No, I didn't notice any squirrely steering. If I had, I might have found the problem sooner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 10:57 pm:

Steve, do your new rear tires look as orange in real life as they appear in your first pic?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 11:14 pm:

Not sure how into the proper way to do this you might be but I'll give a suggestion or two that might come in handy. The first thing involves the front wheels being able to move left & right without the friction resulting from them standing on the ground. The easiest/cheapest way involves 4 small metal plates. Make 2 sandwiches of 2 plates with grease between them and put one sandwich under each front wheel. The next thing is to get a starting or reference point and this is done using a rather long straight edge from the rear to the front wheel. Either side is OK. You're just trying to get a proper "track". Drop your tie rod, (you can actually do this first), then use your straight edge on the other side to get it in line. You can actually set your toe using the straight edge then adjust the tie rod to fit. It really is necessary to be sure the front wheels are aligned with the rears and it saves any guessing by allowing the fronts to swing friction free with the plates.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 14, 2017 - 11:33 pm:

John, the orange is a trick of indoor lighting.


In daylight the tires are white (when they're clean).
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, April 15, 2017 - 04:12 am:

OUCH!!!! :-( :-( Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Saturday, April 15, 2017 - 06:43 am:

That condition is called "scalloping" on tires. usually indicative of front end misalignment. It can result from some imbalance conditions in high speed driving or driving on particularly rough roads. Its easier to feel than see though. Just run your hand along the surface of the tire and you can feel and you can feel the rough edges. That's a sure sign something is not right and needs addressing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Menkhaus on Saturday, April 15, 2017 - 01:43 pm:

So, if your tires last a long time and are not subject to 'scalloping', and you're steering is not squirelly, and you track down the road relatively straight, would it be safe to assume your alignment is in pretty good shape?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, April 15, 2017 - 04:53 pm:

Any condition that involves the toe being wrong will cause tire wear. The less you're out the slower the damage occurs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer - Arroyo Grande, CA on Saturday, April 15, 2017 - 05:46 pm:

Steve,

I always try to look on the bright side of any situation. Consider this: At the rate those tires are wearing, you'll never have a problem with them turning brown.

Dick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve in Tennessee on Monday, April 17, 2017 - 10:11 am:

I just put new tires on the front of mine for exactly the same reason. When I first put the car back together I did not properly rebuild the front axle. It was slightly bent, the camber was way out on one side and the toe-in was wrong. It ate the front tires up pretty quick. The one with the camber out of wack was the worst. The spindle bolt was loose on the bottom so you can imagine. I pulled it and fixed all the issues and the wear stopped. I finally got around to replacing them this weekend. I am looking forward to seeing how it drives now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Monday, April 17, 2017 - 10:25 am:

It take about 10 minutes to check you alignment. Camber and caster can be check with a square and a tape measure. A friend and a tape measure will check the toe in. Toe is easily set by changing the length of the tie rod. Because only one end turns you really can only get it close enough to the high or low spec. Caster and camber are set by the axle and more difficult to repair. Its all in the green manual.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jenell Larson on Monday, April 17, 2017 - 06:18 pm:

Andy, what green manual, please? I have a brown service manual. is that it? I think I need to do this, too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Monday, April 17, 2017 - 08:01 pm:

Mine looks green but I am color blind.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Monday, April 17, 2017 - 08:02 pm:

If you change the the caster you will change the tow-in. I met a guy on a tour who carefully adjusted the tow-in and then adjusted the caster. Result was the same, 100 miles and the new tires were gone. Adjust the caster first and make sure the components are in good shape so that it won't change.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, April 17, 2017 - 09:13 pm:

I think you guys are talking about the black manual. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Monday, April 17, 2017 - 09:16 pm:

Changing caster shouldn't affect the toe on a solid axle. Changing the camber can affect the toe but since the axle needs to be bent you would probably set the toe anyway. The caster is adjusted with a big bar that tweeks the wishbone.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 - 08:46 pm:

Andy,

To get the center line of the king pin near the center of the tire patch on the road, the Model T has quite a bit of camber. The wheels are not straight up and down. So, if you change the caster by rotating the axle, you will change the tow-in. If you want help visualizing it, imagine rotating the axle 90 degrees. Now the camber becomes the tow-in.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Clary on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 - 10:48 pm:

I don't think you could move the axle enough adjusting the caster to affect the toe in. With the wide spec and rough adjustment you should recheck everything when you change anything.

Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 - 11:14 pm:

Steve, I think the black manual used to be green.

Toe-in or "gather as I think the manual calls it, should always be the last adjustment of an alignment.


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