Would you use this rim?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Would you use this rim?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 04:42 pm:

I have a 21" demountable rim that has deep rust pitting on the tire bead contact area on the inside of both of the lips of the rim. This is not light pitting and is not 'hit and miss'. It is a continuous pattern of pitting extending 360 degrees around the inner surfaces of the rim. I estimate that some pits are as deep as half the thickness of the metal rim. The rim, also has lighter pitting between the sides, but not nearly as deep or severe, and that area is covered by the rim liner for the tube. The part of the rim which is seen with a tire mounted, has no pits. I have never seen a rim, pitted like this one. The tire beads will be the only part of the tire or tube making contact with the pitting. I will try to take and post a picture. The options as I see it, are: mount the tire and forget about the pits, or use something like Alvin Lab Metal or POR PATCH to fill the pits before mounting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 06:19 pm:

ANY rim can fail, maybe disastrously. I have seen a modern pressed steel drop center rim break and blow out from metal fatigue. TWICE! (No apparent damage cause on either of them.)
The odds are pretty good, that you could use that rim, and it would be fine. The odds are, that if it did crack and fail in the future, it likely would not throw shrapnel and seriously wound or kill anybody (both my modern rims kept all bits attached). The blow out when it happens, probably would not cause an accident or rollover (not any more likely to than any blowout for other reasons). Most likely it would go with a huge BANG, people nearby may duck for cover.
The rim could probably be used for a spare tire. Not much stress. But, then, it would be forgotten that it had an "issue", get mixed into use at some point, and could surprise somebody. (Not really a good idea.)

I generally am not in favor of scrapping model T parts, not if they appear to be even moderately usable. But this may be an exception. Safety above else.

The one good use I can think of for it? Paint it up pretty. Mount a pre-WWII cotton cord tire with a neat tread pattern on it, and hang on a wall. Old cotton cord tires should NEVER be used on a car. But I like the look of them. A bad rim is adequate to help the tire hold its shape. I have a couple 30X3 1/2 tires I have done that with and filled with spray can foam insulation to help the tire hold shape.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 06:28 pm:

I have a 14" Ford wheel I saved to use as a spare in my 63 Ford Galaxie. I couldn't find a decent one in this area so I filled up the bad pits and low places with JB Weld in the one that I had.

It had some places on it that were pretty rusted up and pitted. I applied it and let it sit up overnight. It was on both sides of the outer rim edges on both sides. After sanding everything and leveling it out It worked fine and the tire mounted good.

OT- I couldn't believe than none of the wrecking yards in this area of Texas didn't have a good 14 or 15" Ford wheel over 25-30 years old. I looked everywhere with no luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 06:57 pm:

All that Wayne says,plus this.
Some 21" rims,possibly aftermarket,seem the get thinner from corrosion rather than becoming pitted.Particularly if they have been sunk down in the mud.These are the ones that blow out at the bead.Pits would have to have pinholes in them to scare me.

One cool early spring evening,l decided to air up T tires.The next day being a Sunday,and desiring to get away from then-wife for awhile,l took off for the neighborhood fishing hole with a cooler of Falstaff(my off farm employer in those days).
By now it is 85 in the shade.Made it almost the 2 miles and popped a tire.Huge cloud of road dust,profanity,etc.Rim blew out at the bead,between lugs.This also finished off an S3 tire,so no loss.
Two good things came of it.1)learned some rims get real thin,2)Rolling in slowly on a rim later had allowed me to stay away longer!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:04 pm:

Forgot to explain S3 tire to the young.These were early synthetic tires,made at end of WW2.There were still a lot of these around in those days.
Usually no good,but once in awhile one would last awhile on a T just driven around the farm neighborhood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:14 pm:

There's an old saying..."When in doubt, throw it out". When it comes to tires and wheels, I don't like to take chances. Sounds bad enough to me to replace it with a nice new one that you can count on to be safe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:45 pm:

21"split rims are prone to rust, especially near the split. Water gets in at the split and rust has its way. It is not uncommon for rims to blow the edge off at this point. Rarely does it harm anyone as the pieces generally stay attached. Tim has it right, 'If in doubt, throw it out".

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:51 pm:

Filling the pits would only be a cosmetic fix. It could, however, cause someone in the future to mistake it for a good rim. It would probably be ok for a spare, but not for regular use.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 08:08 pm:

How about some photos? It its a structural problem then weld it or pitch it. If its cosmetic then use as is. We don't have enough information to make a judgement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 08:18 pm:

I am in no way advocating unsafe components be used.But...
Among other things,my original attraction to the T hobby was the fact that they do not have to be perfect to run well,and as safely as they did when they were in common use.
Certainly,if one lives in a densely populated area,going like hell(for a T)to keep from being run over,you want all components in top shape.
But,some of us still have access to picturesque gravel roads that don't see a dozen modern cars in a mile stretch in an entire day.
My concern is,young potential T hobbyists will become turned off by worrying if this used part or that used part is absolutely perfect.
Most of the catastrophic failures occur at high speeds on long tours.Not everyone wants to go on some endurance run.Just something to poketa-poketa-poketa around a rural area with.
And for use like that,it is hard to justify huge expense for new or perfect parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 08:26 pm:

Rust damage can result in busted rim.

Serious deep knuckle size rust pits on this clincher rim.




Below photos from earlier post on tire coming off a front wheel at speed.



Note how the wheel rim dug in the road and shoulder after the tire left....





Cause....rim side weakened by rust, allowing the rim to split and shed the tire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 08:50 pm:

Terry, I had a rim with similar pitting fail on my coupe. Thank god I discovered the split while replacing my rear tires and not while driving the car. Throw the rim away and get a better one. Your life is worth more than what a rim costs.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 09:58 pm:

Here's my problem child. Have you ever seen one this bad?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 10:07 pm:

Same rim; different lighting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 10:11 pm:

My rims seem OK, just rust, not much pitting. I think I will POR-15 the inside of the rims and paint the outside, with something, maybe Rustoleum or similar.
Paul in Tacoma


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:29 am:

Terry,that IS junk.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 08:42 am:

TOSS IT! Quickly. I had two 6:00x20 lock ring rims that were in better shape than that and the tire installer flat out refused to put my new tires on them for my TT firetruck, and keep in mind, that thing only went 18 miles per hour downhill! I was glad I bought new rims, felt much safer of course. Then a year later I sold the truck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 11:09 am:

Terry,

No.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 11:33 am:

ANY T part that has a moonscape of pits that undergoes stress should be passed over.
I pulled a '14-'16 frame out of the mud.The dip on the bottom of the controller shaft was nearly rusted in two.
I traded this to an old boy.Readers digest version,he built up a pickup on it.Using that controller shaft,against my advice.
On return from its maiden round the block in town trip,his wife told me he came straight in the house to the john and the bedroom,and came out wearing different pants.
That would be bad,wouldn't it?A fresh T,fresh bands,tight high speed and can't haul back on the lever for neutral?No parking brake,either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 11:58 am:

One thing to consider in this case, even if no one is hurt and the car is not damaged except for the rim, One tire and tube will set you back at least as much or more than a good rim. So it might also be good economy to check out the swap meets and look for a better one.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:08 pm:

Whats the cost involved in time/cleaning/repairing? Whats the cost in a new tire and tube should it fail? What's the cost of a new rim not to mention peace of mind? I will be investing in new rims for my car rather than trying to find a good set of used.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:46 pm:

I have one real nice Chevrolet rim that has been drilled for a Ford wheel and a coupe of other nice Ford rims. All need at least one damaged mounting lug replaced or repaired. The mounting lugs on this wheel are good. Can, and should, I cut these lugs off and weld them on other rims as replacements for damaged pieces?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:57 pm:

Terry,try to break the lugs off.
They fit into sqare holes in the rim.l have tack welded lugs on with success.l too have used Chevy rims,and IIRC,the logs press into the lugs the same way,and interchange.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:59 pm:

.....the lugs press into the rims the same....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 02:10 pm:

Terry, Yes I have seen rims that bad, Have I used them? NO!!
Dan's pictured rim (clincher style) is not only pitted, but look at the rim edge--it's way too thin. Even if that rim weren't pitted, I wouldn't use it, it will cut a tire bead quickly. Of course, Terry's smooth side tire rim is a different case, but still (IMHO) too wasted to use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 03:00 pm:

A guy once brought me sandblasted wire wheels to paint for him for his speedster, One was pitted bad and the spokes were very thin, I told him to throw it. He said he would use it for the spare. Next big tour I saw him on it was on the car, not the spare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 03:08 pm:

Terry, Yes I have seen rims that bad, Have I used them? NO!!
Dan's pictured rim (clincher style) is not only pitted, but look at the rim edge--it's way too thin. Even if that rim weren't pitted, I wouldn't use it, it will cut a tire bead quickly. Of course, Terry's smooth side tire rim is a different case, but still (IMHO) too wasted to use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 03:11 pm:

Yes, you can salvage the lugs and weld them on another rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 03:11 pm:

Dial up strikes again! Sorry for the double posting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 09:55 pm:

The only thing I would use that rim for is a rolling stock shop wheel. Throw an old tire and rim on it and use it for moving a car around the shop while working on it. As far as road use, it's toast. You could possibly use brazing rod to fill the pits, then grind it down to the proper contour. But doing that is still pretty iffy at best, and would be rather consuming for both time and materials.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Saturday, April 22, 2017 - 05:36 am:

If using for shop use only take your MIG or stick welder and write ''BAD'' on the outside edge of the rim....


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