Time for an engine pull, eh?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Time for an engine pull, eh?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:31 pm:

Split head (apparently frozen water over winter), and lots of water drained out with oil, from the drain hole. I'm prepping for the worst.

I've not pulled a T engine before... hit read about it on the forum, in fits and spurts. A few questions....

Standard engine puller/'cherry picker' have enough lift? I should be able to rent that, locally...

I'll likely purchase an engine stand, though, as I don't know how long the project will take. Ditto with the T engine bracket/adapter.

This should allow me to properly get at it, clean the outside for the crack-finder process, to see if I have any other detectable block issues.

Might I assume there is an internal crack..... besides the long crack on top of the head.. as there was so much water in the oil?

... and assume the worst with water effect on magneto and transmission bands?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:34 pm:

The head,hopefully,is cracked in the combustion chamber,putting coolant past the rings into the pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:39 pm:

Dennis, pull the head first and check for cracks which may have allowed coolant to get into the motor. If that is the case there is no need to pull the motor.

Hope the news is good.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:45 pm:

The cylinder water jacket is not full length.No direct contact with oil.
Yes,l,too let at least one freeze.Was confined to the head.
Discovered when l was being visited by a minister friend.I was unable to restrain my language.
You may get lucky and damage to head only.
-I-would look for block cracks,and if none put another head on it,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 07:48 pm:

Allan,we are simultaneously typing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jenell Larson on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 08:01 pm:

A standard engine puller works fine. I have had to put an engine in 3 times in the past 6 months (long story) and that's what I used.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 08:43 pm:

Oh, man.... that might actually be encouraging! :-) Sorry about your 'pulls', Jenell.... but you are now we'll versed in the art!

Thanks for the info!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 08:55 pm:

If you opt to just swap the head for a good one rather than pulling the engine, you should pull the lower inspection plate under the pan to get any remaining water out of the dip areas. That pan holds a lot of oil (or likely heavier water in this case). The most it costs is an extra oil change and a little time but it could save the joy of pulling the motor just to find out you didn't need to.

A regular Cherry picker type engine hoist works fine and with the adapter plate sold by the vendors the engine stand from Harbor Freight works fine too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 09:15 pm:

Yes, I did pull the inspection plate... lots of metal bits there... :-(... (in another post... "My spider senses detect a cracked head", or the like)...;pics there.

I pulled the valve cover as well.

Try as I might... I couldn't find any cracks in the combustion side of the head. I should probably clean it up some... even lightly media blast it, and try some of the crack finding stuff onbbit, to be sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 10:08 pm:

What do you know about this motor? Anything at all? Did it run? Why are you pulling all this stuff off? Coolant leaking into the oil thru the rings isn't going to affect any thing like bands or mag or bearings if the motor isn't run after freezing/thawing out. Just leaks to the lowest point. Split head? OK needs to come off but this other stuff? You're knocking yourself out for nothing. In fact if the split is only on top/external and the head had integrity as far as the combustion chambers are concerned a dry/wet compression test would have told you a hell of a lot more about this motor than pulling/eyeballing stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 - 10:36 pm:

It was my Dad's for probably 30 years before he passed away. As far as I know, no engine work was ever done on it. I did park it last fall, in storage, and stupidky didn't drain the water out or put anti-freeze mix in it. I did the normal spring first start-up checks... including ading more water, and it started right up. I took it for a short couple hundred yard drive, brought it back, and shut it down. Cleaned up the guys storage shed, packrmed the tools, and started the 45 or so like trip home. After about 15 miles, Noticed the engine sounding funny, looking power and speed, so pulled into a gas station. Popped the hood and saw the long crack in the top of the head. Crap..... so called Hemmings, and had it flat bed hauled home.

Posted pics here (different post) and followed suggestions. As the funny sound at the end sounded to me like a blown head gasket, I assumed it, or the head, had blown. Because as much water drained out of the oil drain as water, I was afraid there may have been more damage than just the head.

That much water in the oil can't be a good thing. I would imagine water on the mag and transmission bands can't be good, at the very least.

I can put another head on it, and do a compression test, certainly. Is that going to tell me if other bits need attention without inspection? I figured the I'm girl is long overdue for a good eyeball, as long as I've braced for the worst. If it doesn't need anything... cool.... but at I've done due diligence, yes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eviston on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:23 am:

Oouuuuuchhhh.Major rebuild,l fear.Damn.Hurts to hear it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 07:19 am:

Dennis: the "Cherry Picker" is more than capable of lifting the "T" engine and transmission. With the body removed a friend and I lifted one out with a 2x4 and a chain.
Here is an interesting discussion on the subject
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/78491.html?1231897291


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 08:35 am:

Dennis, get the neat little 1 ton engine puller from Harbor Freight. It'll do the job. I don't normally buy from H.F., but this, so far, has been a great investment. I made my own engine stand/crate, took all of an hour.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 09:28 am:

I also have a 1 ton engine hoist/ lift from Harbor Freight I've had for 5 years that works fine. Its just the right size for pulling a T engine from the back of a pickup or from a T. Well made and substantial for the job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:12 pm:

I agree with the Harbor Freight hoist.
It might cost less than renting one.
You will be surprised at the other things you can use it for.
Get the one that collapses to save room in the garage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 12:21 pm:

I was afraid of mentioning HF tools because of a blast I received But since you mentioned it I also have a 1 ton unit that I used to remove a 7.3l PSD from my 95 Pick up I have only had it for 7 years but if it can pick up that engine and transmission then a little "T" engine aint nothin'


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 04:59 pm:

By the way their engine stand works OK for a T engine also. Just the right size. Used it on my 3 T's engine rebuilds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 05:02 pm:

John ... did you still need the T engine adapter from the T suppliers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Thursday, April 20, 2017 - 08:16 pm:

Ii didn't think my engine had been worked on before.... but the head gasket is a copper Victor. I would imagine the original would have been Ford logo'd??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, April 21, 2017 - 09:49 am:

Dennis H.- I made my own adapter plate that's real similar to what is available from the T parts houses. Pretty much just copied it.

Looking back I would have saved time by just buying the adapter plate and been done with it.

The adapter plate bolts on to the rotatable piece that's on the engine stand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson - Omaha NE on Friday, April 21, 2017 - 10:10 am:

Right now the HF engine hoist is on sale, both the 2000# and 1000#, the 2000# is only $40 more than the 1000#. Biggest advantage of the 2000#, is it has more reach. Not important for a T but it helps on later models.
I have the 2000# model, and it has been used by multiple T club members, as I pass it around. It's a good unit. When you figure what a rental hoist costs these days, the time constraint of what you rent it for, and the hour or more it takes you to get it and return it, it makes sense to buy the fool thing.
I bought a real nice engine stand off of Craigslist for $25. I sold it on Craigslist when I was done with it so I did not have to store it. I ask $30 so I could be talked down to $25, and got $30 first day.
I also found a T adapter on Craigslist for $20. It's homemade and over built.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, April 21, 2017 - 10:19 am:

I know some folks use a hook that screws into a spark plug hole, and have had no trouble with it, but I dislike the idea of putting all that weight on those tapered threads. I much prefer using multiple head bolt holes like the lifter in Tim's picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Friday, April 21, 2017 - 12:56 pm:

I checked on a couple lifts on OfferUp and Craigs list.. if no replies, I'll just pick one up at Harbor Freight. I')) check with club members tonight for may be an adaptor. Yeah... I kinda feelnunxomfortable with a single plug hole ring... but thought of maybe using 2. A couple L brackets on head bolts would be cheaper and quicker, though!

Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, April 21, 2017 - 01:06 pm:

Farmerized method: 1" rope or chain between the cylinders slung on a stout corral pole, with a buddy on either end while you guide it out. Cost ? Zero for equipment plus a six-pack to share. More fun. You guys do have friends dontcha??

Any road, point of lift is like they did in the factory. I'm with Steve, lifting by the plug holes may be fine, but to me it feels wrong.


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