Odd early T in Sweden 1928

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Odd early T in Sweden 1928
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 12:27 pm:

Here's a clip from an old Swedish magazine "Hvar 8:e Dag" (Every 8:th day) in 1928.
It shows the celebrations by the Swedish Ford Company for the 50,000:th Ford imported to Sweden, an early Model A.
A few other milestone cars were summoned to participate in a parade, among them the 30,000:th imported Ford, a '25 Touring that had travelled all over the country as promotion and an early T that was claimed to have been built in November 1908, with engine #77.

The claimed #77 looks a bit odd in the picture - haven't ever seen that kind of radiator modification and the hood, body, fenders doesn't look like an early T either?

This car has since disappeared, but Los Angeles County Museum has an actual front frame and engine of Model T #77, and it seems unlikely that it's the remains of this Swedish car that has been moved to the other side of the world, so maybe it's a misprint - or some kind of early hoax?

sdfg

The top line says "From the world of cars and aeroplanes", so the bottom left picture hasn't anything to do with the Ford jubilee, it's the inventor of the automobile himself, Karl Benz who reportedly got a medal from his hometown Baden, Germany on his recent 85:th birthday. Now checking the birth of Mr Benz - he never was 85, died in 1929 at 84, so the magazine was surely wrong about that number - maybe on the engine # too?

fgh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 12:45 pm:

Tack; det var intressant!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 08:38 pm:

Roger,
What does "gjorde sin Eriksgata" mean? Never heard that, but then I'm not Swedish either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 09:04 pm:

I can read some of that, not nearly half of it. Does it say when or where that photo of Karl Benz was taken? I am wondering what early Benz wagen he is sitting in? He appears somewhat elderly, in the picture, so I would imagine it was taken later in his life.
I love the European twist on that brass model T. It appears to be about 1912 to 1915, even allowing for the European coachwork. It does not look like either a '09 or a '25.
Thank you Roger K, for sharing this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 09:25 pm:

Shoot. I was wondering about T engine number 77 but I read the Swedish version and not your English version first.
You do come up with some of the coolest bits of history from your own backyard. :-)
Thanks Roger!
Like R V said; Thanks, that was/is interesting!
Mana toosa tacks. Really bad Norse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 09:35 pm:

Wayne,
It says: "Dr. Carl Benz, inventor within the automobile industry, was awarded the State of Baden's gold medal on his 85th birthday".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - 09:39 pm:

Sorry, I left out "recently" in "was recently awarded the State of Baden's gold medal on his 85th birthday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 12:43 am:

Thank you Roar S. I am really curious what car he appears to be sitting in for that photo.
Just from memory, the 1886 Patent Motorwagen had a steering handle quite different from that (well, maybe only "quite" different from a detail standpoint). After having Mr Google show me a few hundred photos, I could see that my memory was correct. From memory, that steering handle looks much more like the ones used on some of the Velo or Dog-cart models built both by Benz and under Benz license during the 1890s. (These were made by several companies in several countries.) Unfortunately, Mr Google did not show me many pictures of those with good details of the steering and control handles.
A number of other marques (in both Europe and the USA) also used similar steering and controls. Peugeot, De Dion Bouton, and Rochet come to mind. Some of them may have been under Benz license also.
I would expect that Karl Benz would have been sitting in an early Benz for whatever the reason was for that photo. It does look like him in several photos taken of him later in his life. Regardless of the car, and the photo, I am glad that he was honored in that time, while he was alive to appreciate it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne tomlins on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 01:23 am:

Very interesting old photos from Sweden.
Roger, can you please confirm for me that Sweden pre 1967 actually drove on the left side of the road [as per RHD] but that cars there [ or at least all Fords] were LHD? If so, what were the reasons? Wayne in NZ.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 01:39 am:

Roar, "Eriksgata" was a medieval traditional travel of a newly elected king through the provinces to confirm his status and the word has later been used for other more or less important travels through the country to show something for the people.

Wayne, the chassis of the T is early, it has one piece spindles, so it may well be the chassis of on one of only 12 1909 T's that were imported - though it had got a new body and maybe fenders over the years to appear more modern. I'm just curious if it really was one of the first hundred T's?

The records of Swedish registrations are available, so I'll be checking up on A1158. Unfortunately they weren't always noting the engine number..

And the controls of the car Mr Benz was sitting in in the 1920's photo looks like a Benz Velo from the 1890's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 01:46 am:

Wayne T, Yes on both points, reasons are for me unknown, though roads were narrow and winding in the early 1900:s and it may have been more important to have full control over the distance to the ditch on the left side than the position of the right side of the car, since other cars were few and thus meetings were few. Later on, roads got better and that explanation doesn't hold, but the force of a habit is strong :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman Oslo Norway on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 02:27 am:

Roar, according to Wikipedia : "Eriksgata is the name of the traditional journey of the newly elected medieval Swedish kings through the important provinces to have their election confirmed by the local assemblies. The actual election took place at the Stone of Mora in Uppland and participation was originally restricted to the people in Uppland or Svealand, hence the need for having the election confirmed by the other regions.

Wayne. The reason why Sweden did have LHD traffic goes way back to when people where riding horses. It was common practice to hold the reins in the left hand so when they passed other riders they hold to the left to shake hands or keep their weapon ready . Later in the beginning of the automobile era the driver sitting on the left had a better view of the roadside on the narrow roads of the time. Many european countries had LHD in the beginning of the 20 century. Later it became unpractical to sit on the curbside when approaching oncoming vehicles but sweden who imported RHD cars from neighbouring countries i Europe kept on to their left hand practice until1967.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 02:35 am:

Rolf - no, RHD cars were never popular or imported from neighboring states, the vast majority were LHD right up until the shift to driving on the RH side. By then a small amount of RHD cars began to sell - for postal duty, to reach the mail boxes :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 02:46 am:

Roger K, I took another zoomed in look at that Ford picture, and would say you are right! I had looked at it before, and could not convince myself of the front axle being that early. However, looking at it again, I can see the tie rod is high, like the one-piece spindles held it.
I look forward to anything you find out and can share with us. It would be really interesting if that car is one of the first hundred model T Fords. I would not have expected such a body to show up that early on a model T Ford. Although, I know that NRS Fords were done special for the European market for a couple years before. To clarify that, the chassis, either with or without fenders, was shipped overseas, and the special coachwork was done there. Much cheaper than shipping whole cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman Oslo Norway on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 02:57 am:

Yes Roger. You are right. To early in the morning ha ha. LHD cars of course.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 12:22 pm:

The border between Norway and Sweden has not had any mandatory passport check for many decades, so when driving between the two countries, all you had to do was to remember to switch to the other side of the road when passing the border. Of course, there were signs to remind you, as well as a sign urging you to stop at Customs if you had any dutiable goods. I lived in Oslo, Norway, but in 1958 my girlfriend's parents moved to Västerås, Sweden, so we made the trip across the border quite a few times. The problem for me, and apparently for many others, was, after driving for many hours, and you were tired, all of a sudden a pair of headlight come at you around a curve in the dark, and in a snap you had to remember which side of the border you were on. Yes, there were many head on crashes in the border region back then!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman Oslo Norway on Wednesday, May 10, 2017 - 05:27 pm:

Yes Roar. I remember those signs at the border. Things went much smother after 1967. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, May 11, 2017 - 01:50 am:

Here's an article from Los Angeles Times May 25, 1919 confirming that engine #77 at the Petersen museum, loaned from Los Angeles County Museum of Natural History has always been in USA. The car was sold new in Kalamazoo, Michigan and moved with the owner to LA. It's a pity they didn't save the whole car, since the importance of it was known already in 1919.

I'm waiting for an answer from the city archives of Stockholm if the real # of the Swedish car above can be found in its registration paper.

yuik

jklo


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