Giving up and calling on the pros

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Giving up and calling on the pros
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 01:12 pm:


I tried making some longer tire irons, left the tire on the stretchers for several hours, used heat and plenty of baby powder, and didn't even come close to getting it on. Tomorrow this wheel is coming off and going to a tire shop where they have several guys and some long irons tough enough not to bend. I've wasted enough of my day on this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Sommers on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 01:23 pm:

Steve,
I am surprised. A couple of days ago I mounted my two white tires on the front of my car without needing to use a tire iron. Just warm tires, a surfactant, and then they slipped right on. I mount the inside edge first, then the outside edge. By doing that, I am not fighting against the whole tire.

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 01:54 pm:

I use these 24 inch irons from HF
https://www.harborfreight.com/24-in-general-purpose-tire-iron-61603.html
At $5.00 each I can't make them that cheap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:04 pm:

If I am seeing the picture correctly you're trying to mount the whole tire at once. Don't try to put both beads on at the same time. Place the inside bead on the rim and then the tube, then the outside bead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:07 pm:

Royce is the only guy I've seen mount both sides at the same time ! I've mounted dozens of clinchers & no F'n Way !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:09 pm:

Side note: those are 30 X 3's (24") you're attempting to install on the front ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jon Crane on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:15 pm:

Steve
Try googling "Plastic garbage bag tire install"
You might try it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Smith on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:43 pm:

nothing wrong with farming it out and working on what you enjoy. if you are persistent and go back at it, use soapy water on the beads anyway. and yes get some irons that have some length and I guess are just real irons. there are a few other techniques listed that can apply depending on your choice of what you are doing in the picture or a little different if you take off or tried one bead at a time. good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:47 pm:

Years ago I took a T wheel and tire to a tire shop because I didn't have any patches. I figured I'd just let them fix it. The guy told me he could patch the tube but I'd have to take it out. That was what I thought I'd avoid. I haven't patched a tube in a long time but last time I saw them doing it at I tire shop, they don't light them on fire anymore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:48 pm:

Did try it, Jon - took me hours to get the friggin garbage bag pieces out from under the clincher bead !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ignacio Valdes on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 02:52 pm:

The harbor freight 24 inch tire irons have a little hook on the end which fits right inside the rim lip. You use two of them side by side and it makes you invincible!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 03:07 pm:

Steve,

I mounted 5 new tires last year by using Harbor Freight tire irons. Unlike previously explained, you are doing it correctly. Model T rims are not like motorcycle rims which have a deeper pocket to install one bead at a time.

Use a ratchet strap and clamp the tire to the rim on the second space next to the valve stem, just before the tire is coming off of the rim. This will keep the tire from walking off. Next place the 1st 24" tire iron completely through both sides of the rim and locking the hook of the iron on the inside bead. Before prying the tire, place the 2nd tire iron about 2" away from the 1st iron.

Now pry the tire onto the rim using the 1st iron. Repeat the process until the tire is installed.

I would not use the plastic bag trick as it will get stuck inside the rim.

All I can say is this system worked for me after struggling for a hole day on one tire. I got it down to about 15 minutes per tire, including removing the old tire.

YMMV, Rod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 03:34 pm:

Steve,

I believe the most important question was asked by Steve Tomaso, "What size clincher are you trying to mount on the front wheels?"

If you have the standard Ford supplied 30 x 3 non-demountable clincher front wheels they are 24 inch in diameter. The 30 x 3 1/2 inch front clincher wheels are 23 inch. What you have been describing is typical of what many people have experienced when they try to mount a 30 x 3 1/2 onto a 30 x 3 rim. That may or may not be the cause of your issue.

But if you would please let us know what the tire size is on the side of the tire, that would help confirm or rule out that problem. Note I looked on the photo but I could not see or read any tire size. And of course perhaps there is the rare possibility that the printed the wrong size on the side of the tire???? I've seen shirts with the wrong size tag in them.....

Below is an illustration that has been help to some folks in the past:



Below shows a 30 x 3 in front of a 30 x 3 1/2



Below shows the 30 x 3 1/2 in front of the 30 x 3:



I'm sure you will figure it out. And we are looking forward to what you learn as several of us will need to mount a clincher tire in the future.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:00 pm:

This is why I've always posted that I take mine to the tire shop. Even they're getting better at it. Last set of tires was only $16 each to mount. Last year it was between 20-25 each. Works for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:01 pm:

Steve, Something dosent look right. Is it possible the tire is to small for the rim? I think you might want to get out the measuring tape and double check things.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:01 pm:

I use a pair of these, they're awesome! You can get them at Napa, but at Amazon they're $18 each right now.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BBGX2U/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_124?ie=UTF8&p sc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:20 pm:


We've been through this size discussion before. It's not my first time at this dance. The front wheels are 30 x 3, and the tire is 30 x 3. But I've read that the NZ tyres are notoriously difficult, and that the current VN tires sacrifice mileage in favor of easier mounting. Whether that's true or not, when I originally mounted this set of tires I managed to wrestle all of them on with Ford irons. This one is worse. With HF a three-hour round trip away, tomorrow I'll take this job to Rakie's where they mount difficult tires all the time. I'll buy some HF irons for future use the next time I'm up that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:21 pm:

Just wait until a hot day in August.

I tried to mount tires by heating them in a heated enclosure and it failed. I tried again on a hot day and it was easy. I put the tires in the sun and they were almost too hot to handle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:22 pm:

PS. Also,
Do one rib at a time not both.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By P. Jamison- PA on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:41 pm:

I also got some NOS New Zealand white tires like yours, Steve. I also gave up installing them. They were just too stiff. I brought them to Universal Tire in Hershey (not too far away). The guy put a piece of cardboard on the floor and used two ordinary tire irons along with a helper. They did some grunting and knee-holding but got them all mounted in about 15 minutes.

Phil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 04:45 pm:

I've had some fun times mounting tires on the front of my car a couple of times myself. I've had success both ways but with a small tire it might be easier one side at a time. I like to use lots of soap rather than powder and it also helps to have three hands.

Tried the plastic bag once and Never again. I used an inflated tire inside the clincher once to stretch it first as well.

My new Firestone Non Skids mounted pretty good with both ribs at the same time. I even had to do one twice because the tread was upside down???

Good Luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 05:07 pm:

Waiting is not an option. I drive this car. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 05:21 pm:

Hmmm, the tread was upside down? I wonder if it would have looked right if you just switched that wheel to the other side of the car? :-)

Good luck with the tire guys, Steve. Please observe and share any trade secret that they reveal! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 05:27 pm:

Only way I know to mount those NZ pos tires is to go to the wrecking yard and go through their space saver spares until you find one small enough when deflated that you can put the NZ tire over it. Then blow up the space saver tire and it will stretch the NZ tire out big enough you can mount it.

Not my idea, Lewis Rector did that in the 70's when those tires were about all that were available in white.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 06:08 pm:

Steve, what prompted all of this? Did a tube give up the ship?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 06:56 pm:

Stan has the right idea. Give up fighting the tyre and the chance to ruin it. Stretch it first. As there is no wire in the bead to hold it in shape, old stock tyres will shrink over time. Patience is a virtue in this.
Stretched tyres will fit easily, especially if you use the lubricant the tyre shops use. Why fart around with all sorts of home brews/remedies when there is a proven product to ease the problem.

I'm with Royce and fit both beads at the same time. No need then to notch the bead to clear the valve stem.

As rod does, I use a one hand sliding bar clamp to hold both beads and the valve stem in place, which frees both hands to man the tyre irons.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 09:11 pm:

What prompted this is bad alignment wearing out the first tire before I realized what was happening.



I agree that it's a good idea to stretch the tire first.


That's why I left it on the stretchers for several hours, as I said above in my first post this afternoon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dunn on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 10:51 pm:

I bought a pair of these from Amazon, best tool investment I've made in years. I did a 30X3 1/2 in about 20 minutes. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O8RWKCM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UT F8&psc=1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, May 14, 2017 - 10:53 pm:

Steve, a few hour to correct shrinkage that occurred over years may be a bit of a stretch! I have had two use two different sized 14" tyres over a period of a week to get a couple of tyres to fit. One was shrunk 2.5" in circumference, but it went on easily after two stretches.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 03:28 am:

Steve, that's impressive work making that stretcher but I think with inflating a tire inside might give even more stretch. You probably just needed more extension/time?

The ones I had trouble with I was afraid I was going to ruin the tire putting so much pressure in to expand it but luckily didn't.

Good luck and let us know how it goes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 07:30 am:

Seems like it would be better to just put one side of the tire on the rim, then insert the tube, with some air in it and put the other side on, with the stem at the bottom and weight on the tire to hold the bottom area on the rim, but I only tried it once, with one set of Universal tires.

Doing the installation on a hot day with the tire laying in the sun for a couple hours first is supposed to help.

My neighbor had one tire that was very difficult to install, but the other three were very easy to install.

He started with that tire first, purely by accident, gave up, could find no tire company to install his tires and came down and offered me $200 to put them on for him.

I told him that I would not take his money, but would bring my tools and try. I used those cheap irons from Harbor Freight with good results. They were made in India, not China for some reason.

He had just installed the hard one again and added air that did not stay in, seems like I only took off one side to remove the new tube. It was new and it already had 12 patches on, and that was all that came in the patch kit. So he threw the tube and the patch can in the trash and got another new tube that I installed in the method above, with good results. Seems like we then did the other 3 that way and had no more air leaks.

That was a few years ago, he is deceased now, and I do not recall all the details. I do know he bought a set of de-mountable tires and rims. The first new set of tires were just shelved with the wheels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 07:49 am:

I'm still kinda new to T's , or should I say T's are new to me but the new tires and tubes were one of the first things I had to deal with on mine. I don't have the white tires but can now change a tire without a lot of trouble. I took the first one to the local tire store and they ruined a new tube. They pinched it in two places and ripped the rubber stem out of the tube. I patched the two holes and replaced the stem with a metal (brass) one. I went to HF and bought three of their tire irons and a big rubber hammer. I bought Go-Jo hand cleaner for lube. Now I can change my own fairly easily. Oh, I did replace the patched tube with a new one. I do mine with the wheel on the car and the tube in the tire with just a little air in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 09:01 am:

For those who haven't mounted both kinds of tires, here is the difference:

New Vietnamese clinchers are a walk in the park on a pleasant spring day.

Shrunken NOS NZ tyres are climbing out of the Grand Canyon on a 110 August day with a backpack full of bricks.


:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 09:06 am:

Steve,

Your stretcher is very nice. But, "several hours" is not likely near enough time on it. Several days might be more appropriate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 09:39 am:

Yes, I did stretch for several days the first time. I have this tire back on the stretchers and expanded to 25". I'm going to heat it today and see if I can get it out to 25", then leave it that way for a few days.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 10:02 am:

Steve,

It's probably not as easy on a non-demountable rim, but I had a bad one like this once and used a rim spreader to shove the tire over the edge of the rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 10:20 am:

I know most say putting both sides w/tube installed is the right way to go but in this case I'd try to install one side without the tube just to see if it's even possible for it to go on. Looks really small. Sometimes did bike tires with the both sides method but usually ended up doing one at a time. New tires though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole, Oswego, IL on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 10:31 am:

Steve- thanks for updating all of us on your trails and tribulations, keep us informed as to how well Rakies does with them.

Good Luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 03:13 pm:

You're right about the difference in tires! My new Non Skids went on easy with no stretching and just a little lube with both ribs at the same time But I have had a devil of time like what you're having now. You're on the right track sooner or later the tire will give up BUT be careful not to damage the tube. You only want to mount it once and then forget how hard it was.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eddy Lee Emerson on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 03:49 pm:

Steve. When I was putting my Monroe together I went to N.C to buy a parts car. The parts car came with a set of American made tires. The tires were wrapped in brown paper, which promptly disintegrated with handling. Fearing that I would never get these hard tires mounted on my restored wheels, I took the tires to a shop in Tonkawa, OK., which specializes in truck and tractor tires. When I arrived at the counter I was met by a young girl (probably still a teenager) who said they would call when the tires were ready. About three hours later I got the call, and discovered that the girl had installed them herself. Ed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 05:28 pm:

I see no need to pour salt on the wound and i think Steve was doing it the right way to mount the tires.I also think what Stan said about the shrinkage is more than likely the cause.Once the tires are stretched with the space saver spare and mounted would you wait a day or two before you air them up??? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 07:51 pm:

I have had some difficulty in putting tires on even though the tire soaked up the sun for several hours. I often end up using four or five squeeze clamps. You start buy squeezing the tire at the valve sight and as you work each side install an additional clamp. Keep doing this as you work around the tire. The clamps hold the position and ensure the tire is getting into the clincher rim. Works for me!!! Dick C.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert A Weitzel on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 11:36 pm:

Steve I"ve done the New Zealand ones ! Took an hour or 2. But the way I did it is I found a13 inch tire rim deflated and stuck the tire over it and inflated it then it was stretched enough to put the tire on the clincher rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Monday, May 15, 2017 - 11:46 pm:

I'm surprised it's still fighting you so hard Steve. It looks like you're past the halfway point in the picture and they'd start to get easier. There's no prize for fighting it on there, take it to those folks who can cuss at it for you and then just get back to driving.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 04:06 pm:

Bump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 04:32 pm:

Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS you are The Professionals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 04:40 pm:

It's still on the stretchers, Bud. I've stretched the bead out to 25", and during the day I leave it out on the garage roof in a black contractor bag to heat up in the sun. I have to go to Tulsa Friday, so maybe I'll stop at HF and get some of those long irons and have another go at it this weekend. The only irons available here are at the farm supply for $22 each! Ask for them at Auto Zone and O'Reilly and they think you mean lug wrenches, which is all they have. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lester in Floyd, VA on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 04:55 pm:

Steve, while you're climbing out of the Grand Canyon at 110 deg., hang that tire, still with it's stretchers, on your backpack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 05:38 pm:

Thanks Steve and please keep up posted! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 09:36 am:

Bump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 03:19 pm:

Here is the text from Steve's Dauntless Geezer blog entry from yesterday (Sunday):

"The morning was shop time. First I tried to mount the new tire that's been on the stretchers for several days. No luck. Tomorrow I'll take it to town and let the pros have a crack at it. I assembeld the magneto for my touring car, but some of the magnets are a bit lower than others. That means I'll have to add shims or shorten some of the supports. About two I started mowing, and spent the rest of the day doing that. I had to pick up a lot of branches blown down by the recent storm. More tomrrow."

Here is a link to his blog page - once you get there, click on the link for May 2017:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/list.html


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