The encyclopedia gives an assembly date of August 19, 1909 for engine #9455. The car is listed as green. I haven't studied the early cars enough to comment beyond that.
According to Ford, it is a 1910 model.
Also, original doesn't mean original anymore…..
I have # 9267 built Aug 17. Maybe I need to buy this as a parts car! Interesting that it's a wood body while mine is alloy. I'd need to see a lot more detail photos before bidding.
Looks like a buyer would have to allow for a few more dollars for the right hogs head! if one can be found.
Better allow for a one piece pan as well.
Does it have a later high head on it, is that why the upper radiator hose is so deformed?
The purchase price and cost of restoration would be way out of my league, I hope it goes to a good home and we get to watch the restoration progress here!
Plus a 5 ball
looks like the body & the block is the only thing that is 1910 cant tell about the axles. charley
I believe that motor number is too early to have a body with 3-hole front body brackets. The change from a 2-Bolt to 3-Bolt is documented to have occurred at car 15,000.
Looks like wrong headlamps to me- E&J 666's were from '11. And the wheel with the front hub looks to be later style with the heavier shoulder.
Wonder what the reserve is...
Very interesting, but I think I would prefer to get Charley S's car, myself.
There does appear to be a lot of correct real early stuff there. And definitely enough wrong to put the whole car into question.
Beyond things previously mentioned, the radiator has a high neck, and some odd soldering on the top tank. Maybe a poorly made reproduction from the '50s/'60s? I can't tell if it has the steel support near the bottom of the core, or not? The top of the tank does have the winged script.
The gasoline tank is suspect. Every real early tank I have looked at had the "half straps" riveted onto the tank itself.
I find the "Notice to user" tag very interesting. I certainly won't claim to be an expert on those. But, during the brass era, Ford did not supply a battery with the car. Most owners bought dry cells (telephone batteries) for starting the car. So why would the user's instructions give directions specific to lead acid batteries not supplied by Ford before 1919?
(Maybe because someone was making post-'19 "notice to Users" statements back in the '50s and '60s?)
I certainly would like to see better pictures with more details of interest (bottom of gasoline tank, rear end, frame, pan, hogshead, rear fender brackets, etc etc). But I suspect this is a classic example of someone found a couple pieces (body and block?), then put a car together around it.
Note. I am not saying there is anything wrong with doing that. Two very good long time friends of mine did exactly that 40 to 50 years ago. Both of them did a fantastic job getting the right pieces and putting together a very correct looking car! And both of them still have their respective car today.
I will have to look these pictures over more later when I can. I spent almost two hours a couple years ago looking at pictures of Charley's pile of parts. I can't buy anything like that. But I think Charley's pile is worth about twice what this car is worth. It would cost that difference today to get enough correct pieces if one wanted a correct car when they were done with this one. At under 10K, this car is a bargain (as if they would accept that). If the bidding goes up a whole bunch more, and one wants a correct finished restoration when done? I would recommend looking at Charley's. Anyone that knows model Ts should not be scared off because it is a basket case (mostly apart, bring baskets). The right pieces are the right pieces.
Wayne! thank you. Charley
oh buy the way i have a standing offer of $25,000.00 for mine. charley
If there were more pics and details the car would be even more thoroughly torn to pieces by the authorities here. If you had to add up what it would cost to make it "original" and subtract that from the price, the seller would have to pay you to take it. You want an original car, then pony up the big bucks and post pics. Then your car, too, will be shredded on this forum. There are no original cars.
I guess if someone tries to sell a car of that vintage and there are things wrong things about it then I guess we have the right to tell it like it is. It's part of the education process.
Personally I am wondering if the block is real, I don't see the poring casting line along the lower edge of the block. There is a bit of shadow but no real parting line.
It is true that this forum is a valuable resource for anyone interested in model T's, particularly if you want to buy an early one and want to know what is correct. I accept that. The knowledge of people here is astounding. They probably know what was served for lunch on the day this model T was built. It just is tiresome whenever a car like this is advertised that a chorus of guys post what is wrong with the car and why it is worth nowhere near what is asked for it. Whoever buys it will have had the opportunity to research it. If I could travel through time, I would buy a new 1913 model T and drive it across the street to park it in a vault to be opened today. I would bring it out today and post pics here. There is no doubt that there would be a number of people posting what is incorrect about it. "The caps on the tire valve stems should not be brass" or "The brake rod clevis pins are backwards", etc. Having ranted about all of this, I have great respect for those who know and restore T's to high levels of authenticity. Myself, I'm a T driver at many levels. I like all of them from factory stock to all out modified racers. There is room for all of us here.
The pick-a-part crowd never seems to post pictures of their "perfect" cars so others can tell them what's wrong with the cars they own. They feel it is their job to correct someone or rip someone else's car apart, but if someone tells them they are wrong or their car has an issue, Dog Forbid. Reality is most armchair quarterbacks don't don't have the money to buy a football and can barely afford payments on the armchair!
Darel Leipold posted some very enlightening information in the classifieds:
I enjoy reading threads like this. I find the knowledge possessed by members of this forum to be very impressive and threads like this to be very informative. I certainly can't afford to bid on a car like this--probably wouldn't want to any way, but the discussion is a good learning experience in my view. Besides, if I were considering a car, I would certainly appreciate being made aware of any incorrect parts or other issues before bidding so maybe these threads are helpful in that sense as well.
well!! $25,000.00 now. maybe mine is not to high at $30,ooo.oo firm. charley
Damn it Charley ! I just saved up $24,000. I was just a couple weeks away from buying your car now you raise the price!
You guys that are bitching about the posts here concerning the correctness of the car and its parts should think more about if you were the guy that might be considering a car but not have the knowledge or experience of some of the guys here on the forum.
I and others here enjoy and learn about the differences in all the T's.
Because somebody here knows what the correct parts are that does not mean his has to have a perfect car himself!
When a listing says an original 19** car a buyer might assume that it really came off the assembly line as such. We all know the early T's especially have seen many changes over the years to "improve" them or repair them. The value of the car can be drastically affected when an original scarce part is missing for one of these cars. A would be buyer should know and this forum is a great place to learn.
Thanks to the guys for taking the time to look at the pictures and then post here for the rest of us that have lesser knowledge.
Just because I know to look to see if there is a two piece drive shaft or has tapered leaves doesn't mean that I have one on my '12 Torpedo.
Erik, The day the car in question was built the morning crew ended their shift with a hot plate of spaghetti and meat sauce, crisp Italian salad, garlic bread and bottle of chianti. Then they all smoked a big cigar and took a nap.
Aw thanks a lot Michael, now I'm going to have to go to the kitchen and fire up the ol' stove and start making spaghetti and garlic bread! No salad though...that stuff is good for you and I don't eat healthy!
I too read these posts to learn and don't view them as a bitching session but educational. The only thing I know about Model T's is that they take gas, water, and oil to operate.
darryl!! ha, ha. the price has always been 30,ooo.oo. charley
Sold for $25,200!