Wood spoke wheel tightener

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Wood spoke wheel tightener
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 09:15 am:

How is this used to tighten a wood spoke wheel??

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ford-Model-T-Wooden-Spoke-Wheel-Tightening-Tool-Tu cker-Jack-/262993570216?hash=item3d3ba369a8%3Ag%3AHsIAAOSwsXFZHvyq&_trkparms=pag eci%253Acde8d312-3d5d-11e7-92a5-74dbd180d9a8%257Cparentrq%253A25fbc29115c0ab66f1 01ce1bffff4f3f%257Ciid%253A15

Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 09:24 am:

It's a spoke jack - you place it between two spokes, jack out the felloe a bit, then insert thin shims on the ends of the loose spokes to tighten the wheel up.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/320722.html?1352584643


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 02:27 pm:

Best not used on Wooden felloes.

If a repair is done with a wooden felloe wheel that has solid spokes it is much better to shim between the felloe and the steel rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 07:15 pm:

VERY good... thanks!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 10:16 pm:

Yeah, it's a spoke jack, it's a temporary fix at best...might as well just go ahead and re-spoke...save you some heartache further down the line.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 11:08 am:

Martin I have been using shims for almost 20 years now and disagree with your statement. If you remove "at best" you have a better argument. If you have loose clicking wheels shimming will make a good temporary fix. I keep a spoke jack, tools and shims in my tool box and have had several occasions in which I pulled over to the side of a remote mountain road and shimmed a wheel. I've even done it on not so remote roads not far from home... I figured why not do it now instead of driving 8 miles home and doing the exact same thing there!

Shimming produces a tight wheel which is safe to use. The unsafe thing is to drive on a loose, floppy wheel. If you are using it to extend the time before re-wooding a wheel you can put off the rebuild by years... I have done that several times and right now my wheels are all shimmed, have been for several years.

Shimming can save you the heartache of a wheel collapse. Also it can save you from the heartache of missing a tour while you sit on your thumbs waiting for a set of spokes and a press so you can rebuild the wheel.

I agree that rebuilding a wheel with fresh new spokes is a good thing to do. I do that when I feel I can no longer keep my wheels safe and in use by shimming. If the sight of shims on spokes offends you then when a wheel starts clicking you must stop and invest the time, effort and money in a complete rebuild. If you want to drive your car while you think about how to fix the clicking issue and you don't care what a car show snob thinks, then shimming is a good way to go.

I can excuse your statement if I assume you have not shimmed wheels and so lack the experience to accurately evaluate the benefit of the procedure. If you elect to place shims you can consider it a temporary fix...AT WORST!

BTY: that spoke jack went for $124.99 !!!! I try to get them for $10-$15 at swap meets, I'll go as high as $30 for a good one.

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 11:14 am:

Dang ! And I gave one to unca Jack a few years ago...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 11:22 am:

I have pulled two photos from earlier posts.

Here is what a shimmed wheel looks like:



It has been shimmed for several years. Usually you only need to shim one or two spokes, but over 5 or more years this wheel has worked it's way up to thick shims on all the spokes. I start with thin shims and then stack them eventually pulling a stack out and placing thick shims.

Here is my shimming kit:



Notice the shims at bottom center. The hammer is a bit of over-kill, you can use a small hammer, or even a wrench to tap a screw driver or chisel which pushes the shim home. A big wrench like this makes the job easier, the spoke jack takes a lot of force to work.

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 01:47 pm:

I think its important here to know which type of wheels.

I don't think the shims would work as good on a wood felloe wheel as they would on a latter steel felloe?

I have never used a spoke jack but have shimmed the outside of a wood felloe with great success.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 09:51 pm:

Gene, you are correct. I have shimmed my 1913s wood fellow wheels very successfully. I don't use the spoke jack for that, I tack a galvanized steel strip to the OUTSIDE of the fellow after removing the riveted rim. Then I heat the rim really hot (not red though) and drop it onto the wheel. Play a hose stream of water onto the rim to shrink it, then ease it true with a sledge hammer. Re-rivet and paint. Go for a drive!

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 10:10 pm:

Terry, if all shimmed wheels look like the one in your photo, I'll give shims a miss. I like mine to have air in the tyres!!!

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 10:29 pm:

Allan, methinks you are overly picky. That tire was only flat in one spot.

I believe that if you drive fast enough the centripetal force will eliminate that flatness. I would have tested that supposition but could never get Rusty traveling over 150 to 200 mph!

TH


(Message edited by Thorlick on May 22, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 03:42 am:

There's Nothing Wrong with that Tire.... The picture simply does not show all the air in the proper perspective....

We're supposed to be looking at the Shimmy..of the tires


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield; Oak Park MI on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 01:55 pm:

Well, glad I didn't get sucked into bidding on that thing .... hopefully, I would have the smarts to pull out early enough!

Thanks for all!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 02:19 pm:

Not necessary to wait for a cheap vintage spoke jack - they can be homemade fairly easily with some all thread, nuts, washers and pieces of wood like in this picture posted here last year:

Sdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 02:25 pm:

Terry, I've heard that if you get the T to around 70mph, the curve of the fenders acts like an airplane wing and will lift the front wheels up. That would eliminate the flat appearance of the wheels.
What do you use for shims? I assume you make them from washers or something else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 02:37 pm:

Here's the thing with spoke jacks. The spokes are held tight around the hub in two ways.
1. The spokes are wedged tightly against each other in the tapers.
2. The spoke ends are tight against the felloes.

When a wheel gets loose it's because the wood has worn away and/or shrunken, allowing clearance between the tapers and clearance at the outer ends. The longer it's run loose, the sloppier it gets. So, now you push in shims using the spoke jack. The spokes are now tight against the felloes again. But, what about the worn tapers? Still worn... They don't get tight from the shims, because they're also run up tight against the hub nose and can't be pushed in any further.

Terry,

Looking at your photo, your spokes are all skewed because there is still wear in the spoke tapers. You can tell by the mismatch in the shoulders of the spoke at the 12 o'clock position. I would not use such a wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 02:41 pm:

Dennis:

I bought one of those spoke spreaders on e-bay and have used it quite a bit. My car had shims in the spokes when I bought it. Over the past ten years, I have slowly been restoring the car section by section. The next thing is to respoke the wheels. As Terry said, as long as the spokes are tight and not dried out, using one will be just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harry Courtneay on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 03:34 pm:

Just curious--why wouldn't shims work reasonably well with wood felloes? I have never had any wheels that needed shims-just wondering--thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 05:02 pm:

Harry, spoke jacks do a little damage by compressing the sides of the spoke near the hub. I use a piece of rubber sheet... sort of a spoke jack condom... on the pointy end of the spoke jack to minimize damage. A spoke jack can destroy a wooden fellow.

I recalled that wheel photo as it shows my worst wheel. This is the one I am watching to indicate when to respoke. No change in about a year now. I figure wheel rebuilding is in my future ... in a year or two.


I use washers or sheet metal. Aluminum is too soft. .5" i.d. and about 1.0" o.d.

All the wear appears on the tennon end. If you are getting wear on the hub end then there is movement there and the wheel is not a candidate for shimming. Such a wheel is due for spoke replacement... frugality may be a virtue, stupidity rarely is!
TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 05:08 pm:

Here is a picture of a pack of stainless steel washers that make good spoke shims. They are 1/32 inch thick, the OD and ID fit 1/2 inch tenon spokes perfectly, they are nearly invisible once installed. You have to cut a slot in them with good metal snips.

shims


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike conrad on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 05:57 pm:

One look at Terry's has me sold......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 07:51 pm:

Harry, I have never used one but here are my ideas about the wood felloe / jack issues.

Most of the loose spokes on a W/F wheel will have a worn area into the felloe making installation of the shim into a concave surface and not like against the flat steel.

The other more important problem is that with the jack to work it has to push or deform the felloe outward a bit to make room for the shim. The W/F wheel has a steel clincher rim that should be riveted tight to the felloe and would need much more force to flex it out enough to get a shim in. This would most likely damage the spoke at the hub.

The W/F wheels can be successfully shimmed but with the shim between the steel rim and outer surface of the felloe. This providing the spokes are not worn at the hub and the tennions are sound.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 04:22 am:

Terry, back in 1978 I used my neighbors spoke jack on my wheels and it works for a while...but since there is a lack of good flowing rivers and streams around here in Califunny, there is nothing that can or will prevent those bloody spokes from working loose with dried old wood like those spokes. They're anywhere from 100 to 95 (as in my case) years old...my fronts are still shimmed and sort of solid, but I know I'm only delaying the inevitable...they're going to need to be re-spoked here soon...not sure I can trust them in a hard corner or not (loose spokes are a recipe for a broken wheel).
Replacement with new Hickory is really the best (and yes expensive) way to ensure that you're wheels will keep rolling for years to come.

More than likely this is only a temporary fix, my question is...is it really worth it to take a chance that in a year or two (or more) with those wheels and those very old spokes? I think not, re-spoke for safety's sake...you've got a lot riding on those wheels...it's money well spent. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John E Cox on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 11:24 am:

Speed will make a flat tire rounder.
I was cruising down the freeway on my BMW and went to get off. As I slowed and turn on the off ramp the tire went soft and the front end did a speed wobble. I woke up on my back with most of the ribs on my right side broken. Luckily a couple of kids were following me and stopped and blocked traffic or I probably would have been run over by some little old lady.
It was a worm day so I had taken off my leather jacket and had lots of road rash on my arms.


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