Are 1928, 1929 and 1930 Model A wheels the same?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Are 1928, 1929 and 1930 Model A wheels the same?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 12:48 pm:

Are 1930 Model A wheels the same as 1928-29 or are only the hubcaps different for 1930? ( I know 1931 wheels have a bigger hub and hubcap.)

I picked up this very nice Model A wheel this morning. Appears to be original paint - little or no rust.

Is this a 1928-29 and/or 1930 wheel?

Thanks!

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 12:57 pm:

Erik:
that looks like a common later 1928/29 21" diameter wire wheel ...1930/31 were 19" wheels with the large hubcap ...also the early 1928 AR wheel had some differences that I am not completely certain of how to describe ...differences in lug bold area mainly and hub flange ...looks like a good wheel ...always an optimist...gene french


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett, Spalding United Kingdom on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 12:58 pm:

28-29 are 21", 30-31 are 19". But they fit same hub (apart from early 28, often called AR or E28). That's a 28-29.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 01:57 pm:

Thank you!

It's a 21 inch wheel (it has a 4.40/4.50 -21 tire).

Thank you for also mentioning AR. I did some Googling and based on the width of the "drum" of my hub I believe it is the later 1928/29, not AR.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 04:12 pm:

Aside from the difference in lug bolt pattern (26-27 T was 5" bolt circle; A was 5.5" bolt circle, Model A wheels had larger diameter center hub because of the mechanical brake drums. Also, T's were flat between bolt holes and A's has a raised stamped ridge between bolt holes to make the center hub stronger. That's why you see more T wheels with cracked center hubs than you see A's with the same problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 05:20 pm:

OK, 27/8-29 A wheels are for 21" tires and use a small hubcap very similar to the Model T wire wheel. The early A wheels, used before the separate emergency brake band and the two-stepped rear brake drum use a wheel SIMILAR to the T wheel, but with the larger lug circle and the "ribs" between the lug holes, but the center spoking flange is still narrow. Not long after production was underway, some states protested the lack of a separate parking (emergency) brake, and the system was redesigned with a separate band and drum surface for the parking brake. This necessitated a change in the wheel centers to fit over the added drum area. The wheel center must "land" on the drum to provide proper support for the wheel. "AR" wheels should never be used on the later brake drums (front and rear) as the center doesn't "land" on the drum, and the wheel flexes too much. This is documented in a Ford service bulletin. For 1930, Ford introduced a 19" tire and wheel with the larger hubcap. This happened (as usual!) in late 1929. The 19" wheel continued to 1931, and the 1932 wheels used an 18" wheel (or 17", my memory isn't helping here).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 05:27 pm:

Isn't there some issue with early Model A wheels not fitting correctly on later brake drums and vise versa? Something about the hub contour preventing the bolt circle from sitting down fully on the lugs.

pic

pic2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 05:37 pm:

It's my understanding that the "drum" portion of the hub (for lack of a better term) of a 1928-29 wheel is .25 wider or deeper than an AR wheel.

If you put an AR wheel on a later rear hub, there is a gap between the wheel and the brake drum.

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Here's another example of an AR wheel on a rear end - note the gap.

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, May 20, 2017 - 06:36 pm:

Mark, that was exactly what I was referring to in my posting.
Not being English, we must "mind the gap" (British railway term for the space between the platform and the train).
:-)
Note the ford drawing showing the early hub studs too, later hub studs don't have the turned-down area at the root of the threads and the nuts have a 1/4" recess before the threads start. Many reproduction nuts don't have the recess and tighten down on the shallow to unthreaded area of the stud, causing loose wheels. Folks figured that their wheels were wallowed out at the stud holes, and would add washers there that the parts suppliers made available. The real cure is to take the repro nuts, put them in a lathe and machine off the threaded area for about 1/4" into the nut (just the threads, not the outside too). No more problem! A case of parts not made to the drawing!


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