Are the '18 and low '23 runabout bodies the same

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Are the '18 and low '23 runabout bodies the same
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 12:24 pm:

Have an opportunity to get a patch panel from an '18 to repair my '23 runabout. This is the area behind the passenger seat towards the bun. Are they the same contours down in that section as runabout bodies from the late teens?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 12:34 pm:

no!!!!!!!!!! charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 01:22 pm:

Ok ... loud and clear!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 05:12 pm:

2 different styles altogether.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 06:51 pm:

Have you ever bothered to look at pictures of '18s and '23s? If you did, you'd see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 06:55 pm:

Larry, sorry but we just aren"t as smart as you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 07:22 pm:

Yes and no
Yes they are except the rear seat panel
Seat riser also lowered for the oval tank


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 07:37 pm:

bob! why dont you try and put them together for him!!!!!!!!!!. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 08:28 pm:

Mark, The body panels are similar. The main difference is at the top of the panel you are talking about and from the door/fake door area foward. There are two different tack strip styles. One is a steam bent tack strip aprox 3/4 inch X 3/4 inch that goes all the way around the top of the side and rear panels. It sits on a ledge at the top of the side panels. The other style use a tack strip called a "belt rail" It is placed inside of the side panel. The "belt rail" is made of individual pieces of wood. It is more like pieces of lumber or boards than a small strip. The "belt rail" is nailed to the inside of the side and rear panels thru holes at the top of the steel panels, because there is no ledge or flange at the top of the panels. There are some other difference in the body, like seat frames, different styles of brackets, oval or round gas tank, ect. But if all you are wanting the panel for is to use it for a patch panel, and all you need is the bottom 1/2 as well as the rear of the door opening area. Then yes it will work for a donor panel. But if the panel is a real good panel, it would be a shame to use it for patches. Another thing I should mention is that you can not use any part of the side panels from the door or fake door forward toward the firewall. The contours are different in those areas. If I read your first post correct all you wanted to know was will the panel work to repair the bun area of the panel, The answer is yes. One final little note is that the bodies and panels were made by different manufactures back then. So a little fitting is usually needed to use any panel from different manufactures, even if they were made in the same year. Hope this answers your question. Guys, the answers, with a smart attitude are not helping our hobby any. I usually do not add anything to the threads with attitudes, but it seems like it is a lot more common than it used to be. I do not consider myself an expert on anything, but I would rather try and give a good explanation of why I think something is so, than to just smart off. .............. have fun and be safe ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 09:12 pm:

Donnie

thank you for salvaging this thread


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 09:45 pm:

Yikes! It was an honest question ... and it sounds like the answer was actually "Yes." I did look at the pictures I could find of late teens and early twenties runabouts and saw that the upper parts of the runabout bodies were different. But that wasn't my question ... nor the seat panel, area in front of the door ... or the gas tank

I had originally asked about the lower section on the passenger side on the bottom ... behind the door and towards the bun. You never know when such a piece of sheet metal may be available due to damage in another area of that section.

Thank you Donnie ... I appreciate your informed and polite help. Funny how many people will answer everything but what you actually asked sometimes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 04:42 am:

Mark: You may try Howells in TX. They did make some patch panels at one time. I know they are hard to get in touch with but may have what you need. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 08:33 am:

Howell's makes the patch panels (bun area) for '26-7 bodies, but not earlier ones. Good luck, Mark.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 08:42 am:

I am not aware of any bun area patch panels available for the 15 to 25 Roadster bodies. Rootlieb used to make the 1913 bodies and Howell's has bun area panel patches available for the 26-27 Improved roadsters. It has been a few years since I have built any bodies, so Im somewhat out of the loop of what may have became available since I retired. The repro parts not being available for the "black era" bodies is why it is important to know what can be used as patches for those years. I still have a pile of old junky panels that I used for patches on the bodies I restored. They are getting pretty well "used up" but sometimes all you need is a piece a few inches long to save another panel. ......... have fun and be safe ....... .......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 10:08 am:

Here is a link to Howells 23/25 sheet metal.
https://vimeo.com/172652107
Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 10:53 am:

Donnie - you and a couple of others on here are the only reason why I haven't made my final visit to this Forum and deleted my account. Like Scott said, thank you for salvaging this thread and offering something useful (as you always do).

Honestly, the next time some of you heroes start bemoaning the lack of "new blood" in the Model T hobby, think back to some of the "answers" Mark was given to his question and maybe you'll see why our ranks our thinning. Some thoroughly nasty people on here.

(Message edited by Conversiont on May 22, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 12:46 pm:

ok! here is why they wont work!!!!!!!!! charleybody panelsbody panelsbody panels


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 01:03 pm:

YAY Charley. You posted pictures :-) I knew you could do it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 01:25 pm:

yes with my old flip phone its click,click, done. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 01:36 pm:

Charlie, Thanks for the pictures. I have used the bun area from different years for patches. I have never had any real issues with them working. There was always a little fitting to do, but nothing I did not attribute to just the parts being from a different manufacture. I am fully aware that there are differences in the panels, but as to using them for patches on other years, they will work. Now to use the whole panel as a replacement, No they will not interchange. Notice that I said "bottom half" and that is what Mark was asking. I may not always convey my thoughts into words the very best but I try. And I do not profess to be an expert. I was just trying to point out that the real short answers do not help anyone. Thank you again for the pictures ......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 01:49 pm:

Donnie it just depends what you want the finished job to look like. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 04:03 pm:

Charlie, not wanting to get into a p#%%&*g fight. You have probably restored more bodies than me. I have about twenty of them out there with my name on them. Not a single complaint. I also weld and metal finish. Im not a "Bondo slinger" It is really very easy to get the contour/compound curves to match when using the bun panels as a repair patch. That is what the original question was. Sorry I spoke up, Ill go back to my cave and just lurk for a while. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 04:14 pm:

So it does beg the question Charley .... would you sell me that 1923 runabout fragment? That's kinda what the thread was all about. I have holes in that area on my car. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 07:01 pm:

sorry that will be body # 324 maybe for chickasha 2018ha,ha.have you sandblasted it,post pics after you do. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 07:21 pm:

Mark

Pretty amazing that some here would want to blast you, treat you like you know nothing, then show you the very part you're asking about and then tell you there's no way you'll ever buy it. If that's what passes for sage wisdom and helpful advice in this hobby, then we're doomed. I'm betting you're clever enough to make what you need...who needs that frickin' aggravation?? Here's how I did it, and I'll bet you can too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 08:18 pm:

i am done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 08:59 pm:

thank you, Charlie
I'll bet that we've all learned more than we expected


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Monday, May 22, 2017 - 11:08 pm:

Charley i have cobbled a few bodies together not historicaly correct but the are solid and sound


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 06:11 am:

Scott - that is some pretty nice work. I appreciate you posting the pictures.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 07:01 am:

Hey Scott,

Thanks. Yes, I'll just make the patch. I'm good with my hands and like to learn new skills. Just thought if a donor piece was out there it would go quicker. Thanks for your pictures and procedure. I'll cast a reference form off the body before I start removing metal to find where it's solid. I used to do this with dental alginate to take castings from antique harps for restoration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 08:44 am:

Mark

You're welcome. I thought you would appreciate some encouragement, and I wasn't seeing a whole lot of it earlier. I like your idea of making castings. I might have to try that. Did you used to be or are you a dental tech? One of the cleverest guys I've ever known started out making crowns.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 09:51 pm:

No, I used to make and restore musical instruments. Vintage harps often have decorative applications made from plaster which was gilded with gold leaf. When a piece is broken off you can often find another area from which to make a mold for casting a replacement. Now I work in the conservation department at George Eastman Museum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 10:15 pm:

Neat.
I'm constantly amazed at the interesting folks who wind up in the "T" hobby


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 11:42 pm:

If anyone can do it, Mark can! He's done amazing stuff before (not necessarily T) so I'm certain he can do this.


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