Head Gasket / Does this look right?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Head Gasket / Does this look right?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill in Stamford, CT on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 01:10 pm:

I'm getting ready to reinstall my Z Head on my T. I bought the Copper head gasket. I've also used the bottoming tap on all the bolt holes and bought a new set of bolts / washers. I've also taken a 4 of my old bolts and cut off the heads in order to provide the alignment guide for the head gasket / head installation. You can see one of those bolts in the photos.

My question is about the gasket / block alignment. Specifically at the water jacket. The rest seems to be right and the photos might not indicate a problem at all. But I'll let the experts out there point me in the right direction.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 01:22 pm:

That's normal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill in Stamford, CT on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 01:24 pm:

Thanks a lot Jack. The answer I was hoping for. Now for the copper coat paint, head, tighten bolts per the appropriate tightening pattern (I was planning on 55 ft/lbs, but will take any recommendations). Run the engine to warm for 10 minutes, shut down and re-tighten the next day. I'm hopeful that this will put me in a good place for this part of the work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill in Stamford, CT on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 01:25 pm:

I meant to also ask that this gasket appears "right side up". The coloration on one side appears more polished than the other (the side showing). This side also seems to have a very slight bevel although it's hard to feel. It may be that the polish on the edge only makes it appear beveled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 03:02 pm:

On Model T Head Gaskets, the large water jacket opening goes to the rear....

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 07:17 pm:

Charlie -- Your gasket is in the correct position as shown in your pics. The important thing, as Keith mentioned, is to have the larger water jacket opening in the rear. But a quick and easy way to tell on the type of gasket you have is that the "lip" from one side of the copper which overlaps the other side goes to the top, as you have it.

55 lbs. of torque on the head bolts is pushing the limit. I used 50 for years, then some folks on here said that 45 is enough. I've done a few now at 45 and haven't had any trouble with them. The important thing is to re-torque them after running a while, as you mentioned. Use 50 lbs. if it makes you feel better. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 08:11 pm:

The front and rear water jacket passages are different, but only slightly. IF you have the front and rear ends of the gasket lined up to fit properly? There is only one way that the cylinder/valves can line up between the gasket and block. Therefore, there is only one way the model T head-gasket fits in the engine. Try it both ways. It should become clear.
However. The bolt holes will all work forwards or backwards, the only two ways that the gasket can fit between the cylinders and valves. It can actually be installed backwards. And it may even work okay. It is only a slight difference, and if the block and head are both in very good condition around those water-jacket passages? It may actually work very well. Although you should be able to see it if it is wrong.

In the for whatever it is worth department. And remember, I am one of those low-life types that sometimes picks apart cars advertised for sale.
A bit more than a couple months ago, there was a brass era T advertised on eBad (it was not discussed much if any on this forum). Typical for a dealer seller, the description raved about the "correct" car, and the "extremely high quality" of the restoration. It went on to say the engine was completely rebuilt a couple years earlier by so and so who was one of the best in the hobby. There were many pictures of the car, but only a few close up of the engine. One photo, from a lousy angle, and slightly out of focus, showed most of the left side of the engine. I could clearly see that the head gasket was installed backwards. What was supposed to be tightly clamped between the head and block on the rear of the engine, was sticking out the front.
Just me.

Charlie D, There are no stupid questions. If you are unsure of something? Ask. Hopefully, somebody will be able to give a satisfactory answer soon. Some of this stuff seems so simple to some of us. Sometimes we can get a little snippy about it. Some of us started very young and have been working on these things for a very long time. A lot of people did not have that kind of opportunity.
Nice '15 in your profile picture! Treat it well, but don't be afraid of breaking it. It is a model T. Anything on the car that you break? Can be replaced. Enjoy it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 09:17 pm:

Wayne, If memory serves me correctly, the gasket can be installed incorrectly. There is one water passage (very small) near the center that is off to one side and that hole can be covered by the gasket so there is no coolant flowing in that area. When I install a head gasket I just make sure that hole isn't blocked and then the gasket is on the correct way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie Dill in Stamford, CT on Thursday, May 25, 2017 - 10:58 am:

Thanks for the note on torque. If there's one thing that worries me while working on the block is breaking off a bolt by over tightening. The reason the head is off now is because I over tightened a spark plug and broke it off almost flush. Had to take the head to a machine shop to get it out. All good now.

I will torque to 45, re-tighten and re-check periodically.

My car is the opposite of "correct". 15 car, 27 engine, ruxtel, magneto removed (that wound up creating another problem / mistake by me). Rear disc brakes - could be motorcycle brakes. Wire spike wheels, modern carb -- I could go on. The car was made to be a driver rather than a "correct" car. In other words, perfect for a novice like me. I'm really enjoying it.

As a side note, with the head off I realized that a vehicle with a crank is the best way to show my kids the piston / valve movements and sequence. Fundamental combustion engine primer. I got one of my favorite summer jobs in Alaska working for an airplane mechanic. My stated qualification was a "basic understanding of a piston engine."

I inherited it from my uncle with a treasure trove of parts and antique vehicles including a "correct" working 1915 T which I sold. Lots of parts too. I had no idea what I was doing and allowed an "experienced" T owner come look through them. He picked a pile of parts (probably all the good ones) and offered me an amount which I fear was about 20% of the actual value. Bygones.


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