Thanks in advance to all who help! I have this "apart" car, a 1913 chassis, a 1912 torpedo like body, and etc. Here is a list of what is there:
- All lights, including tail, side lights, front gas lights.
- Newly rebuilt engine, rebuilt by Ed Katzorke in Carason City. Comes with generator and starter, and a carborator.
and the starter.
- Coil box and coils. The top of the box is missing.
- Window frame without the supports (original brass)
- Brass radiator (flat) and a fan
- Complete car frame and rear end (the rare round clamshell. Body mounts check out to be 1913)
- Wheels with good wood spokes in excellent condition-
- The gas generator (but this has a split in the body brass. By the way, the brass is modern repos that you can get from Macs, etc. )
- A body that has the torpedo gas tank with brass straps and brass cap. I believe that this body is a reproduction, not original. The upholstery is in good shape.
- Top irons and fabric top
- Firewall but if it was me, I would replace it with a new one
- Brass Horn
- Brass oil cover
- Steering column with early bakelite knobs
- Steering wheel with brass center
- Windshield support rods, brass, original.
- Front and back, right and left fenders
- Right and left splash guards
- Right and left running boards
- Refinished back storage box in great condition
- Engine hood in excellent condition, original
- Exhaust pipe and old original muffler
- Even have 4 old Champion spark plugs in great condition
Here are some photos.. I just laid the parts on and around the thing so the fenders, splash guards, etc will look sloppy as they are not really attached. I have many more photos so just request something and I will post it. Thanks! Michael
An original 1912 Torpedo would have a steel rear tool box. Once in a while they come up on ebay and are listed for big bucks.
Since no one else is throwing out numbers, I'll start the discussion at $4500. I see about $3000 in brass alone but as with most "kits", the sum of the parts are worth more than the whole.
I forgot about the engine. Make that $7500 if the trans was rebuilt too.
Looks like it could be a nice car for someone. You didn't tell much about the engine/tranny or the running gear. Seat looks useable and somebody polished the brass already!
What year engine???
Engine rebuilt could be a plus if a buyer could see/hear it run. Otherwise it's a toss up trust the seller situation. A lot to do here. Upholstery looks useable at least. Brass + its age a plus too. I'm with Steve $7000/8000.
Yes, the engine was rebuilt one year ago by Ed Katzorke in Carson City. His ad is in Vintage Ford magazine as Katzorke Machine Works. He has rebuilt 3 engines for me and he is terrific. He always rebuilds the whole thing, meaning the trans as well.. after all, the 4th main is there! So it is a complete rebuild with pan straightening and all that. Ed has LOTS of experience on T engines.
Here are several photos of the engine along with a photo of the engine #.
It is starting to sound like I should just put her together as a complete car and then sell that. It is a pretty simple rebuild and I have done a couple of them so I can see what will be required. If I add all the parts up that are there, retail prices, such as the radiator (1200), fenders (1500), front gas lights (700), side and tail lights (1050), the hood (350), wheels (800), carbide generator (800), Torpedo gas tank (450), running board and splash aprons (680), then the engine (2k to rebuild but engine was there to start with to be rebuilt (by a T engine rebuilder with a stellar reputation), so, what? 2500? 3000?), the body with the top irons and top (I don't know but I would suppose a grand at least? That seems a tad cheap for a body that only needs repainting.. ?? ), an original horn (400?), original windshield frame (?? 300? 400? 200?), and then there is the frame which is 1913 as near as I can tell from the body mounting brackets in the back (1000? 1500? These are not easy to find these days, or are they?). Well, that comes to over 13K.
Of course I can see that the sum of the parts may not be equal to what one can actually expect to sell it all for, as a package, but this is what comes if you add up what parts go for and some of these prices were from 2015.
I would want it to be fair for both me the seller and the buyer, so that is why I asked. Perhaps it would be best to put it all together myself? GIven that thought, what do Y'all think a car like this would be worth if it was all put together, not concours, but very nice.. new paint, finished wheels, etc, etc.? Any thoughts on that angle?
Thanks so much… I really don't have any idea other than what I have posted so your help is much appreciated. Of course, something is worth only what someone else is willing to pay, but I am just asking for speculation. I suppose that it is important to say that I am only after a fair price for both parties, should there be one! It's not like my living depends on selling this car! ;o)
Looks like a nice project. Since the engine is 1924 and the body a repro it will never be an original. Seems to me that if you complete it you will need to find a buyer who wants a nice car to enjoy and not a connoisseur. There are lot of folks that meet this criteria. If you sell it as a parts pile it's unlikely that you will recoup the cost of the parts. That's my opinion.
When I got my first T and posted it on the forum, there were many nice replies. One of the most memorable was "Be careful, they tend to multiply!"
So then I was working on the one I bought and a fellow up the way came by. As he was leaving, he said he did not plan to live long enough to put his TT together so he wanted to give it to me. He did, and that is my favorite T.. I have posted photos of it some years ago on the forum.
Then a friend that I had not seen for 25 years came by and he noticed I had two Ts. He said his father was into them and he had a 1920 roadster and an almost complete car and he wanted me to have them since I knew his late father. He talked to his siblings and they all agreed although I tried to encourage him to fix them up himself but he declined. In the end, he gave me those cars, one of which is the one in this post. Therefore I have no costs to "recoup".
So I would be ahead of my non-costs for almost anything, thus my interest in what the experts on the forum think. I suppose I get the idea and I sure appreciate the input from everyone. Initially I just added up what the parts cost from the vendors, added value for engiine, body, and frame, and came up with a price. I did not know how else to do it... until I posted it here. I just really don't want to spend the time to care for these anymore. So I plan to sell the car in the post with Merle Haggard in it, this one, and the 1920 roadster which is a really nice car and all original. Well, as far as I can tell. I am sure that someone will find something off on a car that is nearing 100 years old! I will be posting that car as well for suggestions or at least to find out what is off for the year if anything.
No worries.. I will still be a T guy... I will NEVER sell the 27 TT. That is one bitchen truck and a hoot to drive around.
So any other comments from anyone would be appreciated. If it was your pile of parts, what would you do? ;o) Of course, I could toss it out to the world and see what happens, eh?
If it were my pile of parts, I'd part it out and use the cash to buy the '14 Runabout listed in the classifieds. The rare, early parts would be cherished by somebody trying to do a correct restoration of a '12. I believe that without the correct body and engine, the cost of finishing this car out would exceed its resale value, even if I did most of the work myself.
Don't forget that the 12 rivet clamshell is worth about $3,000.