Water pump reccomendation.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Water pump reccomendation.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 08:17 pm:

This is going to upset a bunch of you but I am 72 years old and I don't care if your panties get in a bunch.

My19 overheats because the radiator is old and most likely has all the problems associated with old stuff. I have done all the cleaning things and the motor meter still goes to the top on a hot day. I understand how to set the mixture and the advance so that is not an issue.

I can't afford a new radiator so I have decided to use a bandaid - the forsaken and black sheep of the forum, the water pump.

There seem to be a bunch of different styles available, so my questions are what are the differences and how do I find a good one?

Remember I am on a limited budget so purchasing a new non-leak water pump is not on the radar.

You anti-water pump people can keep quiet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 08:23 pm:

What year Model T???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 08:58 pm:

Fred, for what it's worth, I have heard that the older ones pump a greater volume than the repro's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 09:03 pm:

Ron it is a 1919 but currently has a 26 motor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 09:09 pm:

You could also look into having the Rad. recored.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 10:22 pm:

At one time several people on the forum said a Climax brand was best?? When i used a pump i found a very slight amount of grease would stop any leaking! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, June 08, 2017 - 11:20 pm:

Fred
Please understand that IF the radiator does not transfer the heat to the air, all the water flow in the world won't help. If it was my car I would proceed as follows;
1. Clean the radiator with plain old Vinegar. Remove the rad and lay it on its face. Seal the rad cap with a O ring. Buy 2 gallons of vinegar and pour it into the rad through the hose connections. Leave it overnight. Empty the used vinegar into a plastic bucket and back flush the rad with the garden hose!!
OK maybe you have already done this. So next
I would seriously look at a electric fan. Lots of them in the auto wreckers or at supply stores. Yes they need 12 volts, but maybe you are already on 12 volts OR just add a 12 battery somewhere and charge it regularly. Run the fan from a thermo switch in the top water hose or just add a toggle switch and turn it on when you need it.
Removing the heat from the radiator faster will make a considerable difference
I wish you all the best of luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 12:41 am:

I have been using the new design Texas T water pump for over 10 years. No problems to date. It has a stainless shaft and impeller, sealed bearings.....nothing to lube or adjust.
Made a big difference on eliminating previous heating problems.
My engine is bored .080" over which may have contributed to my previous heating issues. Bandaid or not....I'm happy and that's what counts. The cooling chamber/head were previous cleaned with phosphoric acid. Radiator is Brass Works and is also clean. Use 50/50 coolant and distilled water.
Most old water pumps that I have seen in use leak and sling grease. Part of the reason they get a bad rap from some past users.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 01:41 am:

Speedway sells a great 6 volt electric radiator fan. I have one hooked up to a switch and only use it when I'm sitting still for extended periods of time.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-6-Volt-Electric-Cooling-Fan,56152.html

I have the 12" because that's all that would fit up flush on my brass radiator without cutting off the gas tube on the support. On a later radiator I'm sure the 16" would fit. The 12" pulls a LOT of air. Also, at the bottom of the page is a plastic mounting kit, it works well and is super easy. I had to make up my own connector though. I just disconnect the wires and leave the fan attached whenever I remove the radiator from the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Instness on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 02:19 am:

I have ran 2 different old rebuilt water pumps(a Climax and a Polar Bear) and a modern designed leakless style pump from Texas T Parts with an old Round tube radiator and found the old style pumps to cool better than the modern style.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 08:43 am:

I've had good results with Climax water pumps. The same pump is made under the name Impeller. I was able to use two marginal radiators, one on a 16 touring the other a 26 wood bodied pickup. I tried some others, including a Berg but they didn't work well for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 09:21 am:

If this was asked sorry for the repeat. Did you back flush the block and radiator?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vieux Carre on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 01:06 pm:

Fred,
In restoring our '26 engine last month we poured out a lot of rust from the head. The problem may not be the radiator at all.
Vern


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 01:11 pm:

Seth
Thank you for the information on the 6 volt fan. Definitely something I could be interested in!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie, Memphis TN on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 01:38 pm:

I know nothing of water pumps, but several folks have posted suggestions about electric fans.

Is it possible to increase the airflow by re-shaping the blades of the existing fan? Might that help?

Just asking....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 06:21 pm:

Thanks. I should have been a bit clearer about what has been done.

The original well worn 19 motor, as in never being rebuilt, would overheat on hot days when going slow. This happened even after I removed the radiator and cleaned it with vinegar. I also did a cleaning with phosphoric acid.

I pulled the original motor because I was concerned about hurting it and put a rebuilt 26 motor in. The block and head were cleaned - at least there is no loose rust. The 26 overheats a bit quicker on hot days. Most likely because it is tighter.

I am not in a position to get a new radiator thus I am considering the water pump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vieux Carre on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 06:51 pm:

Fred,
At slow speeds the water pump may not help much. We put an electric fan on our '53 Chev and I can see the temp gauge drop when I flip the switch on. It already had a water pump. Do people see the fan? Unfortunately.
Vern


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 07:49 pm:

" Most likely because it is tighter."

Very likely. Tighter engines run hotter at lower speeds due to friction resistance. Really loose engines run hotter at higher speeds and loads because hot burned gasses blow by the pistons and rings flowing through the crankcase heating the engine from below instead of going out the exhaust. I had a tired temporary engine in a T years ago that could run cool all day long at 44 mph. At 46 mph (give or take one for wind direction) it would full boil in less than two miles. Slow back down to 44, it would cool back down. 45 mph was the tip-over point (that car, that gearing, that engine).

At over about ten miles an hour (relative to wind speed), a fan, just like a water pump (on a T), is a band-aid help that may or may not help enough. Electric fans do help, sometimes. The same is true for water pumps on Ts.
I have run a few Ts with water pumps, and several without. A couple of them, the pump definitely did help the car to run cooler and more reliably. I tried them on and off a couple times.
Unfortunately, the pump I used and liked the best (I actually had two of them), went away years ago when the cars were sold. They did not have a name on them, and I have no pictures of them. So I can try to describe them, but no promises.
They were very simple, basic and plain. The shaft was open, with the front bearing support arm between the shaft and block. A simple cast brass two blade impeller that was inserted and assembled through the outlet (block inlet). There are no removable covers, back or sides. They had a simple era common seal compression over the shaft, that did tend to leak a little, but not too bad as long as it was properly packed and serviced. I made sure the shaft was in good shape, but mostly used common cold rolled steel rod as replacements. The water pathway was more open than most era water pumps for Ts. they had to be to assemble the impeller. I suspect that wider opening was part of why they worked better than most.
One of them had two mounting embossments for a horn or other accessory on the outer side of the main casting. The other did not. Otherwise, they were nearly identical (even the mold parting lines in the main casting). Both had remnants of original red paint when I got them.

Fred D, Good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 08:01 pm:

I have a 12 volt battery for LED stoplights and starting.
A fan for cooling when going slow is a an interesting approach.

I could remove the current fan for more room if needed.

We used to spray the radiator with water from a small bottle during stops in a parade to cool things down. Turning on a fan may do the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 05:05 am:

Fred, watch ebay. I found a very good flat tube radiator for my '25 at about one third of the price of a new one. Just don't be in a hurry. :-) JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 10:06 am:

I'll go along with Les Schubert, and I've been there - the connection between the round tubes and the fins oxidize, and the radiator simply does not have enough effective surface area to transfer the engine heat to the air. The only fix for this is to recore or replace the radiator. It is expensive, but it is the only solution to the problem. My '27 would overheat in 15 minutes whether moving or idling regardless of the air temperature. I replaced the old round-tube radiator with a new flat-tube unit, and you can't make the car overheat now.


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