Going fishing -----for a washer

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Going fishing -----for a washer
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 03:56 am:

Yes I did. I dropped a band washer , the one for the brake into the transmission. The only extension magnet I had was too big so I went to Harbor Freight and bought a smaller one. I tried that for a short while with no luck. I will try a while longer tomorrow. If that doesn't work I'm not sure what to try next. I'm trying to decide whether to drain the oil and remove the inspection plate on the oil pan or remove the starter and turn the engine, with the hand crank of course, and watch the magnets go by hoping the washer will have stuck to a magnet. My engine is freshly rebuilt, having been started and run briefly a few times but the car has not been driven. It had no leaks and I don't want to remove the hogshead and take a chance of creating a leak but I will do whatever it takes to get the washer out. I will take the usual steps to prevent a washer or nut from going into the trans again. Any new tips besides the old posts on here? Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 06:27 am:

So you didn't heed the advice to put rags in there? I feel for you and hope I never do that. If you do put rags in there, write down how many you put in. You may thing you will remember, but you won't. And count them coming out to match you number.

You may be able to see with a mirror, the ends of the magnets with just the transmission door off. That would save pulling the starter. If you dont see it then, then pull the starter. I would also mark the flywheel with a number as you turn and everytime you stop so you can tell where you are and where you have been during the rotations.

I don't blame you for not wanting to pull the hogs head.

Good luck, let us know how you make out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 06:36 am:

If you have a coil ring in the engine it'll be hard to reach from the inspection plate in the pan. Maybe you can reach it from the drain hole to make it stick to a magnet, then pick it from the starter hole?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Hoogendoorn on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 07:15 am:

Tommy don't feel bad....some three years ago I dropped the adjusting wrench through the inspection cover and it got stuck underneath the drums. In the end I had to pull the hogshead to give me more space to get it out. Since then I attach string to everything that I use when working there. On the positive side, once I had the hogshead off I discovered how badly bent the brake pedal was, usually it went virtually all the way to the floorboard. Having bent it back to its original shape using some heat I now have wonderful brake action. That was the upside to my stupid mistake.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 07:40 am:

So far I have not dropped anything in but someone posted using dental floss tied to small parts just in case. Good luck Tommy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 08:06 am:

I am going to try again this afternoon, after church. In the past 100+ years , I wonder how many people have laid awake unable to sleep because of something dropped in the T transmission, like I did last night.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 08:11 am:

I have been lucky thus far and not dropped anything inside. Still pretty cautious not to though. Good luck. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 08:23 am:

Roger has a good idea. If it dropped to the bottom of the sump, fish your flex magnet up through the oil drain hole so that it grabs the washer. Then push the magnet and washer up the back of the sump until you can see it through the transmission inspection cover. Then, use a flex tool with gripping tangs to grab the washer and pull it up and out of the inspection cover.

If your car has its magneto, a magnet may have grabbed the washer, in which case you can remove the spark plugs, bendix, and starter and then watch for the washer as a helper slowly cranks the engine around. Then reach into the starter hole and grab the washer.

Good luck! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jensen on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 08:26 am:

You could try an inspection camera with a hook attached to where the lens is. Magnets don't work to well in there with all the iron in there.
https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-62359.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Perry Goble on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 08:49 am:

Try this be for taking any thing a part . It has worked for me in the past. Drain oil ,remove trans cover , tie a string to a shop rag stuff it next to the trans drum on the side so it will move with the rotation of the transmission drums . turn the crank slowly . It my sweep the washer to the top . I just had a thought you could try taking a band changing tool that pulls the band around the drum and tie a rag to it and try to pull it to the top .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 08:55 am:

I tied dental floss to the washers and nuts and proceeded to drop them into the hogshead multiple times. Fishing them out with a string tied to them was easy.

I seem to remember someone telling me how they did what Perry Goble is describing above, to retrieve a band washer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 09:34 am:


So far I've had good luck with rag stuffing. I've dropped a couple of parts, but the rags have saved me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ross Benedict - Calgary, Alberta on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 11:40 am:

I've heard (wink wink) that sometimes those suckers land and stay on one of several 'ledges' and most of us appear to fish to the bottom right away. . . just what I've heard, mind you. . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eck Sheppard on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 02:33 pm:

I tried all of Harbor Freight magnets and did not work. After a couple of weeks of thinking and trying various things , I went to Home Depot and purchased a bendable magnet with a handle and very stiff wire. I wrapped tape around the outer edges of the magnet so as not to stick to everything. With no oil in the sump and hogshead off I started fishing. Not only did I find my band nut but also an old washer dropped in long ago by someone. Only thing worked for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lee Crenshaw Richmond Va. on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 03:42 pm:

Tommy, I drained the oil and was able to direct the washer over the rectangular hole above the drain using bent mechanics wire. Once in this position, I was able to pass florists wire up through. thcenter holes and around plate and secured the washer until a later pull down. Six years later...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 04:09 pm:

Why not just lift the drums and bands out of the way, reach in and grab the washer ??? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 04:23 pm:

I got it out. I removed the 4th main cap. The driveshaft is not in the car yet. Once the cap was off I ran the magnet down the groove in the bottom of the pan, to about where the drain plug is and got the little ****** on the first try. I didn't know that the fourth main cap needed to come off anyway because part of the gasket was missing. I'm sure that oil would have leaked out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 04:29 pm:

And you CAN bet that I will stuff some rags, tie some dental floss, and all the other precautions when I put it back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 04:39 pm:

Glad you got it out!

There should be a gasket between the 4th main and the hogshead, but no gasket between the 4th main and the driveshaft ball retainer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Sunday, June 11, 2017 - 09:06 pm:

I already had the proper gasket so the 4th main is back in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison - Rice, Minnesota on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 03:24 pm:

Well you know Tommy, you could have just taken the fourth main off and stood the car on end.

I'm happy you got it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 03:30 pm:

I bought a roll of shop towels today. It won't happen again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams, Hillsboro Oregon on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 04:08 pm:

Rags and dental floss equals happy band changing...most of the time


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 04:44 pm:

Count the towels when you stuff them in, then make sure you pull the same number of towels out when you're done!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor - Kenilworth, NJ on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 07:25 pm:

Great fishing story Tommy glad you got it out. Been there done that!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 08:19 pm:

Tommy, we all have things happen. Last band change I had a washer get loose from my fingers. I saw it jump onto my rag (I have been there before and have used rags for almost 20 years now) and disappear. It found a little passage past the rag! Because you use rags doesn't always mean you will not go fishing!

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 09:02 pm:

We all know what we 'should/could' have done. The real question you had is what can I use to fish it out. Refrigerators have a door seal that frequently has a magnetic flat 'rope' inside. Sometimes it can be as long as 5 feet. I have used it to slide down the transmission area and rub the inside of the pan. The magnet is not too strong so it will move even though it is sticking a little to the pan. I have retrieved a washer and a cotter pin with this. It is worth a try vs opening up the pan. Dick C.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 11:14 am:

Tommy,

After about an hour fishing for my washer, failing with an extension magnet, pulling rags through between trans and case etc., I finally modified my magnet.

Here is what I came up with:



I bent the extension handle to conform to the curve of the pan. On the first try I came up with the errant washer!

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Chochole, Oswego, IL on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 11:19 am:

Next time turn the car upside down and shake. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Azevedo on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 02:32 pm:

A couple of years ago a club member brought his roadster over on a work day to change the bands. We removed everything above the transmission cover (remember the ignition key!) and were very careful during the process. The bands were removed, new bands mounted and installed successfully. We were not aware of anything that dropped into the transmission. We started the engine (it has a working magneto) and immediately heard a rattling sound like something running around the flywheel. We shut down the engine, removed the transmission cover and started to fish with a magnet with no success. What to do? I suggested that we try installing one of the after market strainers that mount over the drums that have a magnet in the basket. After some serious soul searching about the potential consequences the owner said "go for it". We installed the strainer and started up the engine. The rattling continued for a few seconds and then stopped! We shut down the engine and took a look and found the culprit captured in the strainer/magnet area. It was a 5/16" national coarse hex nut that had been rattling around. We could not find anything under the dash that was missing a nut. The only nearby bolts that used that thread nut were the firewall bolts and all those nuts were still in place and also a long ways away under the hood. It's still a mystery to this day but our club member is sold on the strainer/filters!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tommy coffey on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 08:42 am:

This morning I put the pedal back in. I stuffed rags and used dental floss thru the washer and nut. I used a plastic wire tie to hold the ears together. It felt good to put that last screw back in holding the cover on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevin Gough on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 11:10 am:

I drained the oil and managed to get the washer to the drain hole. From there I tied some wire around the washer (through the drain hole),and fed the wire up to the cover. Then I carefully pulled the wire and washer out the top.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Van Evera in the U.P. of MI. on Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 11:17 am:

Nevin, that's the way I've done it a couple of times. Works good!!!


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