OT. Motor Muster

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: OT. Motor Muster
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Kramer on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 07:14 pm:

Just saw a post on facebook about the Motor Muster at the HF. It seems the numbers were way down and the lawns were empty. The two posters were very disappointed, especially comparing this year's event to past years. One mentioned the changes for this year may have been the reason for such a lousy turnout. Ya think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 08:10 pm:

I saw report on Fordbarn, only like 300 cars. oh my!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 08:19 pm:

Preview of what's to happen to the OCF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

How about some reports here for those of us who can't do Facebook or those other social media sites?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 09:36 pm:

That's not surprising, and consider that the MM is for cars 1933 and newer which have electric lights and are more suitable for driving to and from THF, not like the gas headlights and kerosene taillights on the early cars.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 05:57 am:










Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 09:13 am:

I too was at the Motor Muster yesterday and I can confirm that the organizers of the event fulfilled (and then some) their objective of reducing the number of participants (both those showing cars and walk in observers).

In many classes there wasn't even one car on display. Examples include, but not limited to, 1933, 1934 or 1935 vehicles.

I have participated in seven tours to date this year, each with participants from around the U.S. and I have not yet met a single person who is planning on showing a car at this year's OCF, nor are they planning on attending the event as a spectator.

I suspect that what I saw yesterday may be a good indicator of how the Old Car Festival will look in a few months.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 10:30 am:

The people have spoken!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter McIntyre on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 10:40 am:

At least you didn't pay $27.50 for what the web site promised with "hundreds and hundreds of cherished, fawned over, mythic cars... and hundreds of people ready to wow you with creative and mechanical genius". I would think the paying public were not totally impressed with the show they thought they were getting and what they actually got.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 10:58 am:

What will be interesting and telling is what the organizers do differently next year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 01:02 pm:

Next year? "Due to the lack of public interest, this event has been canceled" Or some similar statement!
Methinks that was the plan all along!
Next up? Get rid of those pesky Model Ts driving around all the time. . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wightman on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 02:32 pm:

Sad Sad day at the Motor Muster.... Hate to say this but I hope the OCF has the same turn out... I will miss the old show immensely.. Been going on and off since 1975....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis R on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 03:17 pm:

"hundreds and hundreds of cherished, fawned over, mythic cars... and hundreds of people ready to wow you with creative and mechanical genius" What kind of PC Yuppies are running this? Does not sound like a bunch of "Car Guys" What's next- Excuse me sir, where are the unicorns? Sheesh... I wonder how long till Henry stops spinning in his grave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 04:21 pm:

"PC Yuppies"

Bingo! You win!

These are the types of folks who speak in the latest fad lingo of the day. They have "re-imagined" the MM & OCF for a whole different "optic". No clue....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Flora on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 06:48 pm:

The incompetent management team just realized their dream come true. Perhaps they can turn it into a lawn and garden show, there appears to be a lot of open lawn there. Sad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 06:55 pm:

I was a participant a MM this weekend with my 1936 DeSoto Airstream. As a founder of the event and one of its narrators since its inception, I can only describe the event in one word: heartbreaking!

The number of vehicles was down by more than half!!! The atmosphere was depressing. If this continues for the OCF, management needs to drop the word "Festival" from the title because it will be anything but festive.

I retired from the planning/approval committee and narrating effective this year. But because of my prior work, and consequently recognition factor, I cannot begin to tell you the number of people stopping me to complain or voice their concern. This includes participants, prior participants who opted not to bring a vehicle but came as spectators and, even employees! I had employees tell me they were "embarassed" about the situation.

Many past OCF visitors told me that unless things change, they will not come to OCF.

And as if all that weren't bad enough, many people that I had either not been asked back to narrate, was let go or, quit because of the changes.

I want to make something abundantly clear: I RETIRED OF MY OWN FREE WILL! I WAS NOT "FIRED" OR NOT ASKED BACK!!! I told special events in 2015 that 2016 would be my last year as a consultant and narrator. I did not learn of the changes until shortly before they became public in March of this year.

If you were there either as a participant or spectator, I would love to hear your thoughts and know your impressions.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 06:57 pm:

This is one turn of events (figuratively and literally). What is more important, is whether a small group of true hobbyists can step up and replace these events with something to truly rival the old OCF. It requires a site, and a group to plan it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 06:57 pm:

I was at participant a MM this weekend with my 1936 DeSoto Airstream. As a founder of the event and one of its narrators since its inception, I can only describe the event in one word: heartbreaking!

The number of vehicles was down by more than half!!! The atmosphere was depressing. If this continues for the OCF, management needs to drop the word "Festival" from the title because it will be anything but festive.

I retired from the planning/approval committee and narrating effective this year. But because of my prior work, and consequently recognition factor, I cannot begin to tell you the number of people stopping me to complain or voice their concern. This includes participants, prior participants who opted not to bring a vehicle but came as spectators and, even employees! I had employees tell me they were "embarassed" about the situation.

Many past OCF visitors told me that unless things change, they will not come to OCF.

And as if all that weren't bad enough, many people that I had either not been asked back to narrate, was let go or, quit because of the changes.

I want to make something abundantly clear: I RETIRED OF MY OWN FREE WILL! I WAS NOT "FIRED" OR NOT ASKED BACK!!! I told special events in 2015 that 2016 would be my last year as a consultant and narrator. I did not learn of the changes until shortly before they became public in March of this year.

If you were there either as a participant or spectator, I would love to hear your thoughts and know your impressions.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 06:58 pm:

I was a participant at MM this weekend with my 1936 DeSoto Airstream. As a founder of the event and one of its narrators since its inception, I can only describe the event in one word: heartbreaking!

The number of vehicles was down by more than half!!! The atmosphere was depressing. If this continues for the OCF, management needs to drop the word "Festival" from the title because it will be anything but festive.

I retired from the planning/approval committee and narrating effective this year. But because of my prior work, and consequently recognition factor, I cannot begin to tell you the number of people stopping me to complain or voice their concern. This includes participants, prior participants who opted not to bring a vehicle but came as spectators and, even employees! I had employees tell me they were "embarassed" about the situation.

Many past OCF visitors told me that unless things change, they will not come to OCF.

And as if all that weren't bad enough, many people that I had either not been asked back to narrate, was let go or, quit because of the changes.

I want to make something abundantly clear: I RETIRED OF MY OWN FREE WILL! I WAS NOT "FIRED" OR NOT ASKED BACK!!! I told special events in 2015 that 2016 would be my last year as a consultant and narrator. I did not learn of the changes until shortly before they became public in March of this year.

If you were there either as a participant or spectator, I would love to hear your thoughts and know your impressions.

Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 07:15 pm:

Help! How do I delete multiple messages!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 07:23 pm:

It's impossible ha ha ha. Actually I'm sure there is a way but regardless I'll add this so it gets hidden in there better.

While some events may be getting reorganized to death there are others that have not only started but are growing strong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Schrage -- Grosse Pte Farms, MI on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 07:29 pm:

Hey Marty,
Sorry to hear that MM and OCF are deteriorating they way they are but it is not surprising with all the changes. I do not plan on driving my Model T to OCF this year. I was a spectator at Eyes On Design on the grounds of the Edsel Ford Estate yesterday and, although the cars can't drive around like Greenfield Village, the show was terrific. It was a collection of cars, tractors and motorcycles from the teens through the eighties. Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, June 19, 2017 - 07:32 pm:

Marty B, Afraid I can't comment from either a spectator's or participant's view. But since you slipped in ahead of my post, I would like to add, that unfortunately, this is just a sign of our current times. Very few business people today are honest. They don't want to take care of their customers/patients. Everything, especially communication, is stonewalled. Shine them on, brush them off. Glitz, glamour, buzz words. Promises were made to be broken.
The saddest irony of all this, is that it really was Henry Ford that figured it out over a century ago. Provide a superior product, that the masses would want. Take care of those customers. And take care of your employees. That way, all those employees can become even more customers. And most of those customers become repeat customers.
Henry Ford worked hard. But it was how he treated his customers and employees that made him one of the wealthiest men in the world, ever.
I don't know if there are any businessmen left that understand that.

Marty, I do understand how you must feel about it. You have invested a great deal of yourself into both these events. Only to have them destroyed right in front of you.
I do feel your sadness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 02:43 am:

Thanks for the update everyone. I had a bad feeling this would be the outcome. It was sad for us to not attend the MM, and will be for the OCF this year but enough is enough. When THF gave me a answer on their Facebook page a few months ago and more or less said if the car want the shoes to continue, then the car owners will have to pay for it. That for us, after 35 years of attending was the end of the road. They dont seem to appreciate all the hard work and expense these car owners put in to these automobiles and who are kind enough to share them and their guest.

MIKE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 05:40 am:

Oops typo on my post, meant shows


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 08:16 am:

We had a great time at the Gilmore Classic show last month


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 09:27 am:

I'll go along with the comments on Henry's treatment of his customers, but not his employees. People get all caught up in his $5 per day salary, but they forget the reason for it (three eight-hour shifts) or the killing pace of the assembly line. They forget about Henry's goon squads that watched over every facet of the employees' lives both at work or not. They forget about his resistance to unions, the killing of workers, and many other actions that took place. Henry was an inventor, a savvy businessman (until the mid-20s) , but he was not a nice guy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 07:54 pm:

I'm just curious how many of the 300 vehicles were military, commercial vehicles, and vintage RV's. You subtract those vehicles and the car turnout might have been even worse than it sounds.

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 05:58 am:

I am amazed that as many as 300 people decided to put up with the new changes?! John Neilson must feel very proud of himself!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 06:51 am:

People also forget or don't realize that Henry Ford hounded his son Edsel so much he developed ulcers that ultimately killed him. If you ever read the story of the relationship between father and son, it will break your heart! He was not a good father to Edsel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 07:37 am:

Commercial vehicles were about half of what they were in the past. There were a few first time entries there. Only one GMC motorhome was present this time. There was a lot of room between the cars so you cook take photos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 03:08 pm:

Was the GMC motorhome orange? If so I know the couple who owns it. If it was them I'm surprised they went after all these changes.

Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 05:52 pm:

Michael, the 300 included cars, commercial, bikes and, motorcycles. I had one of the many spectators and participants tell me he could have seen more cars at an A and W cruise night?

Wayne, thanks for the understanding.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wightman on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 07:07 pm:

Marty... Anything with CrossRoads Village in Flint... Leaving for Michigan in 2 weeks.. Right now without the T... Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 02:25 am:

Marty, Hearing this breaks my heart. I've been attending the car shows there since I was a kid. I can not tell you how much this bothers me. I still do not understand THF's thinking on this. They had such a good thing going there. Like I said so sad


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 06:21 am:

Michael,

Yes, it was Saginaw Orange.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 06:31 am:

Tom, Yep I know them very well. Thank you for the update!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 02:45 pm:

Does anyone know if they got any military vehicles? I'm just curious because I'm almost thinking that was some sort of a club. So I'm wondering if they boycotted the event.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 05:39 pm:

Dave, there's a group that was talking about/to a show at Gilmore. But, frankly, I really think a better setting -- and closer to a Greenfield Village type setting -- is Crossroads Village. It has "old" style buildings, room to drive around, a place (or places) for a pass-in-review, a working steam train, etc. Anyone who has been there will know what I'm talking about. Although, I really like Gilmore and admire the work they have done, if we want to recreate an OCF type event, I don't believe Gilmore is the place to do it. I spent about two months shooting a film at Crossroads and really got to know the place. Try visiting the site and read about the trains and the buildings and look at the pics. Pretty cool. I hope the link works.

http://geneseecountyparks.org/crossroads-village/attractions/huckleberry-railroa d/

Michael, There were military vehicles there but the numbers were greatly reduced. Not sure if THF limited them or if some owners boycotted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 06:07 pm:

Marty, That would be a awesome idea if someone could revive a old car festival type event in the general area. I'm going to check this place out online.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 09:02 am:

Michael, let me know what you think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 03:32 pm:

Michael, I only remember seeing two military motorcycles. One was an Indian and the other a Harley-Davidson.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wightman on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 04:51 pm:

I'm Leaving next Friday for Michigan with or without the '12.. If you decide to go to Crossroads later I would be willing to help and make this an awesome show.... Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 05:37 pm:

Marty,

To share a story about Gennessee Parks...when my now 39 year old was 3...we did Frankenmuth and then Huckleberry and finished up at Greenfield Village as an extended long vacation. Decades later the only one he remembers is Huckleberry Railroad! With great detail about everything. Maybe an omen?

Ironically, he is a season ticket holder now to THF/GV and is the guy who has financially sponsored Dearborn Days for that event, yet he still talks about that Huckleberry experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Ruth on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 05:43 pm:

I received an email from THF as I'm a member - seems they feel some fall out - hopefully they get their heads screwed back on!

Dear Member,

Thank you for visiting us this past weekend. This year, we implemented changes to our long-running, very popular, mission-driven car shows, Motor Muster and Old Car Festival. Over the years, these programs have grown significantly in terms of participation. Most recently, we've had as many as 900 vehicles for each event. However, that unbridled growth posed an increasing safety hazard for participants, visitors and staff, and completely overwhelmed our available parking, staff and other resources necessary to support these events. We needed to right-size these events to address these realities while preserving and strengthening the quality of the visitor and participant experience. To do so, we introduced a number of new practices and procedures that we believed would assist in those efforts.

The changes we introduced this year, unfortunately, disappointed many. While we were and remain committed to evolving our car shows to be successful within the practical constraints and concerns identified above, we could have done a much better job of communicating and explaining the need for these changes. That miscalculation on our part had a negative impact on our guests and participants, and for that, we are truly sorry.

You have my personal assurance that our management and staff will be working in the coming days, weeks and months on the appropriate next steps we must take to right-size our car shows to achieve the optimum guest and participant experience.

We truly value your support as a member of The Henry Ford, and we thank you for your continued patronage.

Thank you,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:50 pm:

Marty, I did look at the website, the place looks absolutely beautiful! That would be a great place to have a car show. Thank you for showing it to us.

MIKE


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Trzcinski on Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:52 pm:

John, Wow maybe the THF heard a lot of negative feedback and realized they made a mistake. I am sure the revenue was down on gate admissions and concessions too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 12:39 am:

They waited to see how things would go at the MM before doing any backtracking. But, they're certainly wondering how much backtracking is necessary now? They only want to do enough to "right-size" the OCF, that is the question......

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Sharpe on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 06:21 am:

My first exposure to OCF was 1958, as a spectator. That set off a desire to have a nice, old car and get involved. That happened. However over the years the number of really old cars has dwindled and the number of redundant later models skyrocketed. First year as a participant, with two cars, we had train and merry-to-round passes for grandkids, abundant guest passes, and no registration fee. The parking area were supervised, and restraint ropes were up to signal, stay out and don't touch. Then came the take-aways, less and less When they gave the Lansing-Dearborn participants the boot followed by the arrogant, terse one-sided letter from the V.P. ENOUGH.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 11:25 am:

Charles, unfortunately, things change. I haven't missed an OCF since 1963 and I, and anyone else who has been going that long, have seen a lot of changes.

The first shows were run in alternate years by local chapters of the AACA and VMCCA, not the Village. We had free coffee and donuts in the morning and after the show, THF gave participants -free- a wonderful dinner in the Lovett Hall. You could park any where you wanted during the show, not by years. Pass-In-Review has moved to various locations: The Village Green; the Activities Field; the gazebo (before they moved it); etc.

Many years ago a different management team made overall changes to the Institution. One of the results was that a once thriving OCF participation, dwindled to less than 300 vehicles. With another management change, hard work brought those numbers up and introduced the Motor Muster.

The point is, life is change -- sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. Even though the current administration tried to make a change, the realized it was a mistake and are willing to make another change -- a good one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 02:22 pm:

Bump to get rid of the spam


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