Balky when hot ?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Balky when hot ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 11:19 am:

First time Liz has "embarrassed" me . . .
Yesterday, grandson Andy and I made a loop around the mile, then went crawling in low in and out of the hayfield to turn the water (1/2 mile total) then to the saddle shop, another four miles to buy him some levis. Temp was 80F, when we came out of the store a few minutes later, Liz balked. Of course we drew a crowd, and several offers for a pull, shove, jumper cables (!) etc., which we politely declined.

I kinda muffed my first try to start, mistakenly switching to mag at first - she tried, but I hadn't enough speed in my pull on the crank, she "chuffed" but didn't catch. Switched to bat, coils sounding like angry hornets per usual, and cranked . . . and cranked. Nuttin'. Next, I opened the carb bowl valve, gas was running freel. Hm. Flooded ? I turned the mixture needle fully closed and got a sign of "life" but of course she died right away with the needle closed. I figured that should have cleared things. Set the needle . . . nuttin'.

Finally decided the best fix was to wait for her to cool down, opened the hood and was patient for a few minutes. After a bit, she responded as per usual.

Good friend tells me his '13 often behaves this way when shut down after a run, and needs some cool-off time to re-start. We speculated on "vapor lock". I'm thinking if that's the problem, maybe gasoline boils in the idle tube on these early Holley carbs ?

Would appreciate your thoughts on this . . . who knows when we might have to make a quick get-away ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 11:28 am:

You may be correct about vapor lock.

One place it tends to happen is where the gas line is close to the exhaust.
When you are stopped the air moving stops carrying the heat away and the gas in the line boils.

For a quick get away a bit of cold water on the gas line works -

If you only have beer available you have a choice- pour some beer on the gas line or drink the beer while waiting for it to cool down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 11:33 am:

Fred, excellent suggestion - I'll have to make sure there's always an ice-pack and a couple of beers in my tool kit ! One for me, one for Liz.

Seriously, I can appreciate the liklihood of a "bubble" in the gasline, but wouldn't opening the carb bowl drain cause it to pass through ?

Think I'll have a beer and think on this . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 11:41 am:

It could have been vapor lock. Another thing might have been flooded. Letting it set for a while would relieve either problem. When an engine is flooded, a good way to clear things is to open the throttle fully and with the key off, spin the crank as fast as you can round and round. Do this a few turns and then turn on the key to batt. You might even get a free start. If you don't get the free start, use your usual pull up on the crank but do NOT choke.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Vern (Vieux Carre) on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 11:48 am:

Ethanol boils at a slightly lower temperature than pure gasoline. We wrapped our fuel line on two other cars with a fiberglass material and clamped it in place.
Vern


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 11:53 am:

Right you are, Vern, I'm an "ethanol free" convert if you can get it, but I have a feeling all gasoline currently available is far more volatile and prone to cause vapor lock than the stuff we were used to years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 02:52 pm:

I had this same problem. If it's vapor lock, you'll hear the needle and float kinda bubbling and bouncing around. I'd be surprised if that was the problem.

On mine I finally figured out that it was just flooding. I set my float level a little lower, and I make a point to open the throttle more than usual when starting while the car is hot. Now she just cranks right up no problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 04:17 pm:

A question. You say the car "balked". Did it start up and run for a short distance before it "balked"? or did it just not start at all? If you had vapor lock, it would run until the gas in the carburetor bowl ran out, similarly to turning off the fuel valve while it is running. If it were flooded, it would not start.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeffrey Bowen on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 04:17 pm:

Has anyone thought of putting wrap on the exhaust in that area so it will not heat the line instead of wrapping the line?

I know it wont look stock but header wrap on the exhaust would fix that problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 05:32 pm:

Hi Norman, it's always difficult to help with a diagnosis when the problem isn't made clear. By "balking" I meant to communicate no start. I made the error of being on mag and the pull I gave wasn't energetic enough for mag. She tried to start, fired, but didn't catch. Maybe she would have started if I'd had the switch on bat ? Game over when I did turn to bat, no response. I turned the mixture needle closed and got her to fire, I thought that should have cleared up a problem with flooding, but upon re-setting the mixture needle to its normal position, it was no go until she had cooled off.

Jeffrey, that's a good suggestion, but I'm not convinced gas was boiling in the supply line. Opening the carb bowl drain showed a normal stream of gasoline running from the tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 05:58 pm:

On my '13 I installed a new a 3/8" fuel line and routed it under the exhaust pipe and as far away as practical from it. Just a thought


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