1923 TOURING REAR DOORS (and probably front too)

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: 1923 TOURING REAR DOORS (and probably front too)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 07:37 pm:

I am putting together a 1923 Touring (low cowl) form parts and pieces from various sources. Progressing very slowly, health issues. I am doing the rewooding using plans I purchased from Leon Parker. Most things are close to the dims. shown on the plans. But, now I think I have another problem. I may have doors that are not from a 1923. When I put the in the door openings, they seem to be a bit short (up and down), maybe up to an inch. the hinges were loosely attached to the doors. When I temporarily attached the other side of the hinge to the steel pillars, the holes lined up (kinda).I seen in various catalogs that the doors are different for 1926-27. different for a 1913 and still others for 1915-1925.
NOW MY QUESTION: Could someone measure the outside dims. of rear doors for a 1923 Touring. I suspect that I will need new door skins.
Thank you, Paul in Tacoma


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 09:29 pm:

the overall dia. 15-25 all the same. even 14 rears. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 09:53 pm:

Paul, there were different body manufacturers (at least 3), perhaps there's a difference in door dimensions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, June 21, 2017 - 10:37 pm:

Steel Pillars, 1923 pillars were wood. Recheck your dimensions, does your sheet metal fit your wood frame? Something seems amiss here. Charley is correct about the doors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 02:24 am:

Plans from Leon Parker (Miller plans) have the steel pillars, which I have installed in the correct location. I have a straight line between the mid point of the dummy door to the aft. of the opening rear door. I am guessing that I could make up some height when I make the door wood and re-bend the skins and/or re drill the hinge mounting locations. I will just move on to other stuff until I/we figure it out.
Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 02:38 am:

As Charley says, the 1915-25 doors are all the same. Maybe I have '26-'27 doors, or maybe 1913 doors. In the morning I will go to my scrap pile and check to see if the steel pillars are the same as those I am trying to fit on my 1923. Can someone tell me if there are different steel pillars?
Thank you-Paul in Tacoma


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 02:50 am:

If your doors look sort of squarish looking they're 26-27...the rear doors on a 22-25 are rounded below the hinge, the front is sort of squarish.





These are the drawings I made from my doors to make interior panels from...my car is an early 1922 touring. The doors for a 23 will be no different.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 02:54 am:

Pictures of how it fits?
The '13 and '26/'27 doors are larger and completely different (squareish).
The arm rest to the rear is higher than the door - here's a 1922 for example:

rty


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Thursday, June 22, 2017 - 08:56 am:

paul! steel pillars are all the same. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 12:49 pm:

What I have decided to do is build the wood frames for the doors, then maybe order new door skins.
Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 01:38 pm:

paul! where do you plan on getting new skins??????????? charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 02:28 pm:

Bump to get rid of the spam


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 03:16 pm:

anti-spam bump


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 03:38 pm:

Charley, I meant new to me. I will see how mine fit before moving forward. I do live near Bill Bender and he probably has some.
Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 08:40 pm:

Having rewooded a '23 roadster, same as your touring, I can tell you that you are probably making a mistake that will cost you dearly in time and material lost if you take this approach.

All advice I've read to date has been very good. There are no steel pillars in a '23 low cowl car. As Charley said, all the doors are the same from '15 to '25 and if your doors conform to the drawings that Martin V. posted and your doors don't fit your car then something else is terribly wrong

POST PICS


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 09:00 pm:

My doors are nothing like the drawings that Martin posted. No pictures as the doors are removed. Just making sure that the openings are correct. Moving forward with other things now.
Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Jull in Oakland on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 09:36 pm:

Paul - my rear doors for a 24 Touring are 18 3/4" wide and about 19" tall. Yes, your car has rear steel pillars but you already know that. I wish people would take time to understand what you are asking before talking about some other part of the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 10:11 pm:

Thomas, a '24 body has significantly different structural components than a '23 low cowl car. If you are certain Paul should have steel pillars based on your car's build, you are likely mistaken.

All of this could have been pretty well answered by posting a picture of the door openings and/or the doors.

Myself, I'd be interested in seeing what the steel pillars are or look like.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 10:22 pm:

all bodies with 3 piece rear tub have the braces. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 10:31 pm:

Thank you Charlie

I learned something new today. What are the braces reinforcing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 10:38 pm:

they are not realy a brace but the door pillar/ body rib. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 10:41 pm:

Paul, please post some pictures of your body, even without the doors: Side view, front, cowl details, rear seat tub detail. So much has happened to these cars over the years, one cannot start with assumptions!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Jull in Oakland on Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 02:05 am:

According to Ford's Price List of Body Parts they are called "pillars (rear seat)" and are part numbers 7202BRX and 7203BRX


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Jull in Oakland on Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 02:11 am:

Here is a photo from the parts book showing the pillars

Touring frame


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 08:50 am:

thomas! thanks for the pic that should clear things up. charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Sherman Tacoma WA on Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 10:29 am:

Thomas, thank you for the measurement numbers. Those are what I have been working with. Also, the steel braces and the steel pillars are what I have. And Charley, you are most helpful. I will take a shot at posting some pictures, later as soon as I can get my grandson over to show me how.
Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 04:59 pm:

Paul, when putting T open cars together from various used parts and especially from the 17-early 23 low cowl bodies you have to remember all bodies are not exactly alike!
Ford used up to 5 body builders during that period.
They all have the general measurements but the details can be a little different.
This isn't the first time this has come up.
You can usually get them to fit but sometimes it may take some tweaking.


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