A little afraid to start it

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: A little afraid to start it
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 06:50 am:

So I'm a few days away from starting the engine on the '23 I've been working on since December. Just waiting for some rebuilt coils no a couple of other bits. For those who have followed my posts I was concerned about how tight the bands were after installation. I used the stronger springs as suggested and they were murder to install. The bands we're tight to the drums. But even when the nuts were backed off all the way to the end of the shafts the bands were still pretty tight on the drums.

I tried coating them repeatedly with oil and clamping the bands down tight and leaving them for a few days in hopes they would compress and leave some room when I backed off the nuts, and it did somewhat. I can turn the crank by hand with the plugs out and I don't feel as much resistance. Before I could barely turn the crank. The low gear and reverse pedals feel better and come back after releasing the pedals. But the brake band needs to be left with the nut out pretty far to reduce drag ... and the pedal doesn't really spring back as a result.

So ... I am apprehensive to start the engine due to that drag on the brake drum. I guess I'll bite the bullet start it .. and let it run for a few minutes then remove the cover and see if running settles things. Don't want to ruin the drum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 07:17 am:

The brake drum doesn't turn unless the car is rolling. It is coupled to the drive shaft. No drag there for just starting the engine.

You do need to make sure you don't have it backed off so far you don't have any brakes before you try to drive it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 07:18 am:

Mark,
starting the engine won't be a problem as the brake drum will not be spinning while car is stationary, unless you jack the rear end up and have the hand brake fully forward.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 07:22 am:

I don't plan to drive it initially, just want to get it started with the back wheels off the b ground. The nut is backed off on the brake right now .. but will be tightened when I lower the rear and drive the chassis. I installed an earlier coil box with a switch on the box for the initial start up and didn't put the body on the chassis just in case I have to remove the hogs head to replace the bands. Will make it much easier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 08:49 am:

Mark; hearing it run the first time takes away a lot of trepidation and puts a big smile on your face! Good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 10:16 am:

Mark- what kind of band lining did you use? Something seems to be wrong and if those are Kevlar linings and the bands are as tight as you have described them to be, you will end up with damaged drums. Bands do not "loosen up" as much as I think you are hoping they will. Can you post a picture of the bands and springs ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Vaughn - Lincoln, NE on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 11:24 am:

How much wear is there on the pedal cams? Excessive wear on the cams can be problematic with pedals not returning even with good springs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 11:57 am:

Oh heck, jack the rear end up, back the bands off and start that sucker! :-) (be sure to chock the front wheels so it doesn't vibrate off the jack stands)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 12:23 pm:

Yes Dan,

They were Kevlar. Have used these in my other T and no problems. But these were so tight I couldn't slip the installing clip on the ears. Tied them up with mechanics wire after drawing the ears together with c clamps. The bands were round and the linings done correctly from the ends inward. They were the Ford demountable type with the long slots. I had relined them a month earlier and maybe that was the problem. Installed them dry and then added oil.

I don't have the body on the chassis. If I think there is a problem I'll yank out those bands and replace with a non quick change type lined with cotton.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 12:32 pm:

Using 20w50 or 20w60 would certainly help prevent damage if the kevlar bands do drag on the drums.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 12:47 pm:

I have 5w 30 in there for the initial start up. Figured I don't need any more drag and will change it out pretty quickly after working in the rings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 12:54 pm:

Maybe it's just superstition, but one thing you could try would be to repeatedly (several times a day) push hard on each of the pedals with the engine off. That might help get the kevlar weave a little squished and get the steel bands more round to give you just enough extra clearance to get by on the initial start(s). :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 01:07 pm:

Mark can you post pictures of the bands with the transmission cover door off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 01:08 pm:

Mark O.,

Before installation, were your bands true & round, or kind of egg shaped? Trueing up the bands before installation makes a world of difference.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 04:41 pm:

I second Jerry's comment. Were the bands round?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 05:06 pm:

They may straighten out but definitely keep the rear wheels up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 08:22 pm:

Here they are before installation. Very round.

Bands


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 08:29 pm:

The bands on the drums.

On drums


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 08:33 pm:

This is when I tightened them up as far as they would go to see if I could compress the band material. I left them that way for a week.



Bands tight


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 08:40 pm:

If you can turn the crank it is probably not too tight. And if you can push the car in neutral without turning the engine, it is not too tight. If you can get it started while jacked up, use the pedals one at a time. Push down hard so that it pulls the band tight. The movement of the drum will tighten the band. Do this off and on not slipping the band, just starting and stopping the drum. Take off the parking brake and use the brake band too. Just do it for a few minutes and then let it cool off. Do it again. You might find that your pedals go down farther after you have done this for a few times. Re-adjust them to apply the bands about 1" to 1 1/2" above the floorboard. After a few short drives at low speeds they might need re-adjustment again. Good luck.
Norm


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