Another T wreck: The usual thing

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Another T wreck: The usual thing
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 10:11 pm:


We've discussed this before. This wasn't the first Model T run down by a distracted driver, and sadly it won't be the last. We can stay off high speed roads, and keep a close eye on the mirror, but I'm afraid we'll never cut the chances of this to zero.

Email this afternoon from Verne Shirk:

Greetings Flatland T-er's,

I just thought I would let you know that a couple of our club members, Bud & Karen Redding, were involved in a Model T accident over by Iola, KS this past Monday. Apparently a young mother in a mini van took her eyes off the road for an instant to look back at a child in the rear seat. When she looked back around she was quickly approaching the back end of the Redding's 1926 Model T Coupe. The coupe was doing about 35 mph and the van about 55 mph. There was 40 ft. of skid marks by the van trying to slow down. Upon impact, the Redding's passenger door opened and Karen fell out onto the pavement. She reportedly has a bruised head, arm, and leg. Bud has bruised ribs and hit the windshield with his head. Both were admitted to the hospital and Karen stayed overnight. They kept Bud a while longer but he is home now. The mini van was totaled. The Model T sustained damage but it does not appear as bad as the mini van. Kimberly is sending a get well card from the club but if anyone would like to send a card personally, their address is...

Bud & Karen Redding
1938 Reaper Road N.E.
Waverly, KS 66871


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 10:23 pm:

I have always equated vehicles to lethal weapons and believe
both should be handled with the same acute level of attention.
Unfortunately, most people do not share this feeling of danger
potential and believe these types of things only happen to "other
people".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Sunday, July 02, 2017 - 10:41 pm:

I know supposedly it was to check on a child in the back, but I've got $5 that says she on her phone.

When driving my T I'm more alert than usual. For some reason it feels like folks are even more likely to cut you off or do something stupid when you're in an old car. Maybe I'm just extra sensitive to it when I'm in the T.

Regardless, every day I see more and more people texting and checking Facebook or doing something with their phone while driving. ESPECIALLY when stopped at lights, but just about as much while driving down the road. I think the only reason the death rate hasn't skyrocketed is because modern vehicles do such a good job of protecting idiots from themselves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 08:42 am:

Burger & Seth, I can't agree more! The idiots around here, and no doubt everywhere, are increasing exponentially. Getting to where I see 3 out of 5 passing cars with the driver's head down, looking at their phone. They're usually veering toward the right most of the time, due to a car's natural tendency to do so. But not always.

And the worst of it is, that A-hole who hit the T will probably start some movement to keep the T's off the road "cause they're in the way". Sumbi--'s.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 08:51 am:

Forget making the cars safer, make the drivers safer. We hear again and again about accidents that should not have happened and how new laws must be passed to make cars and driving safer.

Why not make a driving test an actual test that is hard to pass?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Hoogendoorn on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 08:51 am:

Reminds me of the accident my late father had driving his 1932 Lagonda. Doing 50 MPH on the hiway he got smacked from behind by a mother who was late taking her kids to school. While doing 70 MPH she was looking at her kids in the back seat. Result: the missus (not my mother) got flung onto a busy hiway but was miraculously not hit by any other cars - spent nearly a year in hospital and a few operations later. I am always scared of the huge speed difference when driving my T on public roads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 09:00 am:

Seth, that seems like a suckers bet to me.
It has been raining a lot in N.E. Florida the last month I had a modern coming up behind me real fast so I laid on the horn his head came up and he ended up in the ditch. When the police arrived they asked if he hit my car I said no then the officer told me the other driver accused me of stopping too fast... I explained to the officer I don't have wheel brakes and my stopping distance is about 3 times longer than his... the Officer told me to go home and thank my guardian angel for being so vigilant!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 09:55 am:

Seth, I'll bet you $5.00 that you're right!

Bud is a very good Model T'er and has many (50?) years experience with them. He is a past MTFCA Board of Directors member and the go-to person for help on Model T's in his home area. This accident is a big tragedy and I hope that woman driver gets the book thrown at her for this reckless accident.

Bud, we're praying that you recover soon, get back to 100% and driving your T's again.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 10:13 am:

I don't know if it will do any good, but I'm looking for a set of white strobes to clamp on to the back of my T. They will run on a small 12V battery that is actually from a backup power source for a Verizon FIOS setup. Here in sunny SW Florida (home of some of the worst drivers in the USA) there are miles of good roads that have a 45-55 mph posted speed limit. A very large percentage of drivers here consider speed limits to be suggestions. I drive the T like a NASCAR driver at Daytona - about 50% of my time in the rear view mirror. My top is in fair to good shape, but when it is replaced I am going to double the size of the rear window.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 10:43 am:

Some cars have automatic braking when approaching a slow moving vehicle. Maybe that would have prevented this accident. Looks like the van got the worst of the damage. The newer cars have a built in crumple zone for the safety of the passengers, but usually results in a "total" for the car. The T can probably be fixed. Hopefully all the people involved will heal without lasting disabilities. The woman must not have been belted in if she fell out of the car.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Humphrey on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 11:06 am:

If only we could teach people how to drive again.. It seems to me that everyone wants there car to drive for them and so many people today are so important, that everyone must stay in contact with them, or the world will end.
I don't know why, but its getting worse and good people have to pay for it.
Just my ranting i guess..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 11:17 am:

"Checking the kid in the backseat" Sure.
The first thing any policeman or lawyer does these days when investigating traffic accidents is get a copy of all the parties involved telephone records.

Also, anyone who gets run over by a train, hit crossing a street, steps in front of a moving street car, or falling into an open construction trench or manhole cover....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry & Sharon Miller, Westminster, CO on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 11:48 am:

I agree with Burger.

Nothing wrong with a dose of chlorine in the gene pool.

Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sean Butler Huntington Beach, CA on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 11:50 am:

Burger: Totally agree. I've always called a drivers license a license to kill and they shouldn't be given out as freely as they are. Of course, then the state wouldn't be collecting all those fees. My dad spent much of his work life on the road and said he'd pretty much seen it all. When I was of age, he told me he didn't care if I could pass the DMV test. I would have to pass HIS driving test before I could get my license.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carey on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 12:34 pm:

I belive a lot of the fault is with the courts. My neighbor was just "T BONED" a the corner by a teenager that didn't stop at the sign and was going 40 or better thru the intersection, no skid marks. This kid has had 3 major accidents in the last year, all his fault, and is still driving. How about the courts taking some responsibility??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 01:00 pm:

In some States there is no Drivers Road test now for a license. If you have had Drives Ed in school, you just are given a License. WTF!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 01:03 pm:

Yes, yes, as history has shown, mass public executions are always the best answer!
If we're quick, maybe we can get it scheduled for tomorrow, as we celebrate our rights and freedoms.


Sheesh, talk about "B.S."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 01:23 pm:

Steve, Thanks for posting about this unfortunate accident. I believe there are many more accidents than what we read about here.
Possibly as more new cars come on the roads with accident avoidance systems we maybe a small bit safer driving our T's.

As many of you know I favor having a car with seat belts and as I read the report of this accident if the Reddings had been wearing a seat belt Karen would not have been thrown from the car and Bud may not have hit his head on the windshield. The late RDR, Ralph Ricks impressed upon me the importance of being secured in your seat while driving a T and I know in the case of a roll over guys will argue how bad that might be.

It's just a thought as we think about our own safety while driving. We can do "what if's" until the Sun burns out like if Bud had been driving at 45 maybe this criminal driver may have been able to avoid the crash?

Drive Safe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eyssen - Abilene TX on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 01:45 pm:

No matter what or how many laws are on the books, the violations will continue to occur. My rather simplistic solution would be to draw on modern technology and in some fashion prevent any phone in the vehicle from being used in ANY manner while the car is running. I would except an emergency call, but no response to same until vehicle stopped and turned off.
John: Before you install strobes, check laws for some jurisdictions do not allow white lights on the rear except for license plates. Yellow or amber are allowed here in Texas, and I have been told that my yellow are very visible from a far distance. (powered by a sealed 12volt in the tool box)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Blake, Kansas City on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 02:56 pm:

It's my understanding that the average German motorist took the driving portion of their examination 3 times before passing. It is a real test of driving skill and very challenging.

I for one am looking forward to the advent of self driving cars for the majority of the people on the road who think responding to a text message is more important than paying attention to the road ahead. I trust modern technology more than the lowlifes such as the person who caused this accident. I am also confident that manufacturers fear of our ambulance chasing industry will ensure self driving cars are highly developed when they become available.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 03:36 pm:

One locally infamous "Accident Lawyer" was called an "Ambulance chaser" in public. He sued for Defamation of Character, with his defense being, "I'm there BEFORE the Ambulance!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 04:20 pm:

Gene,The truth is the woman had her head in her butt and she could have easily ran into or over almost anything in her path!!!!!!!!!!!!!If the Model T had been doing 45 could it have turned turttle?? If she could not see a car,what chance would a person walking have??? The commercial i hate on tv is you do the research and find the car you want and run it into a tree!The ins people raise your rates so maybe you should have done research on them first?? Lady,You Should Remove Your Head From your Butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not that Bud,this Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 07:00 pm:

I think what Norm and Ken missed is that Karen was thrown out of the open door of the T and injured. Luckily she was not run over after leaving the car.

YUP the walker or bike rider don't stand a chance. Here in Cal we now have another new law states you must give 3 feet clearance to a bike rider. Guess with your head up butt that won't do much good either.

We'll never know but the more difference between the speeds at impact the more violent the accident.

Just happy no serous injuries or major damage to the car. Count your blessings and good luck


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 07:55 pm:

Dale,

As a perennial fan of poetic justice, I truly hope heaven rains all those whose
"rights" to be cavalier with your life and those you love down upon you. When
it is YOUR child or wife who was killed, raped, or left a vegetable, I will be the first
one at your doorstep to hear you preach about how the person who brought such
pain and wreckage to your loved ones "has rights".

Talk about B.S. ! Hehehehehe ! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 08:00 pm:

I know it is not just in my silly Grass Valium area. I have seen it all over the state. Almost every time I drive my modern car, I come upon and pass people driving their modern cars slower than I would be driving my model T. There are literally hundreds of those people in my area. I am sure thousands of them throughout the state.

Why are those "slowpokes" not being clobbered daily?

Califunny law used to state in clear and no uncertain terms, that "driving is a privilege, not a right". What happened to that. Distracted and "under the influence" driving offenses should be enforced vigorously, with MANDATORY loss of driving privilege for a year on a first accident or serious offense. If a person is too dense to learn from that one? Try five years, or lifetime. Then the sheeple will pay attention.

Personally, I don't trust accident avoidance systems. I have seen too many circumstances where I do not believe they could work, or would probably brake when they should not, and could cause more serious problems than they can prevent.
The big problem with any of these systems, is again the sheeple. Too many people put their entire trust in "somebody else is responsible". Once they have someone else to rely on? They no longer take any responsibility for themselves. As long as that remains true, more and more "protection technology" will only lead to worse and worse self reliance. And technology is not fool-proof. Especially when it is designed and marketed by the same gamers that make other things that are designed to fail.

I am deeply saddened by Bud and Karen Redding's accident.
I do hope and pray for their complete recovery.

I am sickened by the directions our society has gone these past 40 to 60 years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 09:23 pm:

Wayne, I read a study somewhere that T's, tractors, motorcycles, Amish buggies and such aren't "seen" by certain people. They sort of tune them out as they don't have the right "shape" to register in their mind as a car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 10:14 pm:

Tom C, I absolutely believe that is true. That is an opinion on my part, just to show that I know opinions from facts.
Thank you Tom C for the comment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Monday, July 03, 2017 - 11:44 pm:

Burglur,
yes, yes, public executions, rapes, killing and maiming. folks left as "vegetables"- my, my, your life certainly is scary!

Grow up. Yes, we've all heard your macho act ad naseum yes, youre one bad hombre- a legend in your own mind.

I was just pointing out that your fever dream of mass executions for civil infractions is a bit off kilter with the ideals the country you claim to love.
We appear to disagree once more my friend.

Instead of fantasizing about carnage raining down on your family, I hope you all have a happy Forth of July, Independence Day, or as it is known in Rwanda, "Liberation Day"- ironically, a celebration of the day when their mass executions were finally halted......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 01:58 am:

Dale and Burger, please let it go. We don't need the lack of tolerance currently exhibited by the various political factions in our government here in the forum. Someone has to say NO! It stops here!
This is not to say either of you is right or wrong, just please agree to disagree and let us move on. And it doesn't matter who has the last word--I say this with great respect for both of you.

Tom, I believe that is true, as I've heard it suggested in Bicycle and motorcyle accidents. Most drivers are looking for modern cars or trucks and just don't see other stuff on the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 06:34 am:

My God! So many posts lately involving certain forum members turn ugly and dark very quickly- it's quite disturbing.

I hope the driver of the minivan and her kids are OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darryl Bobzin on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 08:34 am:

I sold my '27 roadster about 8 years ago because I felt like I was going to get run over every time I took it for a ride. I now have a '25 roadster, The disease has come back, But I won't be taking it out for any long rides. Side streets and country roads is all it will see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 08:51 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 08:59 am:

Tim, they were belted and car-seated, and unhurt.

Those of us Model T drivers who live in fly-over country are truly blessed with our country roads. I realize it can happen anywhere, but when you're on a road where you see one or two other cars in fifty miles your chances of getting run over are about as close to zero as it's possible to get.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 09:29 am:

I live in the country and the main road is less than a mile from my house, it is marked as a 55 mph speed limit and most times I have people passing me in a modern car in the mornings going to work running 70. I hardly want to drive my model A s or Ts because of people texting and tailgaters riding your bumper. I normally go miles out of the way just to stay away from the main traffic. You still get a people blowing the horn when they pass you....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 11:28 am:

Sometimes, I wonder which has the less risk; driving on an Interstate or four lane highway, or taking a two lane US, state, or county road which has no extra lane for an approaching driver to pass. In Texas, except for places in West Texas where the Interstate speed limit is 80, the maximum in most of the state is 70. Only in towns or cities where the law allows the local municipal government to adjust the maximum speed do you find lower maximums. As in other states, you can bet that most traffic is moving at 10 to 15 MPH above the posted limit.

As for the accident above, the T did come out better than the van, but only because it was higher off the road surface. The T being lighter is lucky not to be flipped when the van drove underneath it on impact. Having a 27 T coupe, I can tell you it isn't easy locating and repairing the decklid, rear quarters, or bracing and the panel below the deck lid. Skins, except for the quarter panels, are available but this car suffered major damage to the rear sill and rear interior body panel bracing, to say the least. I hope both drivers had insurance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 01:08 pm:

Ed, that's a good idea!! Except for the clown with their head down in their phone. . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 01:13 pm:

I'm lucky that I live in the country enough that we have some nice blacktop roads and farm to market roads.
In no way would I drive my cars on an interstate highway or state highway.
Even on the farm to market roads people fly along at 60-70mph.
All I can say to each his own where you drive but be advised that when your cruising along at 30-40 mph in a car that's little more than a glorified golf cart a guy in a PU going 70 mph comes up pretty fast if you don't watch what your doing.
It makes my skin crawl.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 01:22 pm:

I want someone to invent an electronic Gizmo so that when I see someone with their head down I can send a message to their screen that says hang up and drive. But then they would probably be P****d off that I interrupted them and go into full fledged road rage.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 01:48 pm:

G.R., How about a removable gizmo that can be attached to a T that senses when a vehicle is approaching fast from the rear. It would audibly let both the T driver and the approaching driver know by using their phone or vehicle radio speaker. The audible message to the fast approaching driver would sound something like this: Caution, Slow moving vehicle ahead. Watch and adjust your speed accordingly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 02:13 pm:

An orange safety banner like the one the AACA sells would maybe have given the guy a chance of being seen. I suggested such years ago and was admonished for it being a foolhardy idea.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/334788.html?1358112904


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 02:35 pm:

Terry, your idea is far too polite! How about a speaker that blares out, "SLOW DOWN, IDIOT!"
Oh wait--they probably wouldn't recognize they're the idiot and slow down. . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Erfert on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 02:40 pm:

Happy 4th of July, we just finished the Flagstaff parade and with (6) T's in front of me (one being a T bird) I was last with a Caterpillar truck with wheels the size of the T. I checked with him to see how good his brakes were before the parade started. I believe whoever allowed the new cars to have all the gadgets to make them safer are creating problems rather then solving them. Remember Stop Look and Listen? I do and watch for traffic both ways and if there is to much traffic I stay off the road.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wes Nelson ........Bucyrus, MO on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 04:33 pm:

I found this little video on you tube and thought of this thread...

https://youtu.be/6__5K0wd6hA

On the topic of safer built cars, how about a driver choice, phone on = car off, or car on = phone off, to me it seems simple one way or the other but not both at the same time. Or is that too difficult a problem for the college boys to figure out? I'll bet there's no money in it for the powers to be...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Glowacki on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 05:16 pm:

I have driven many thousands of miles over the past fourty years in England and Wales and I have seen few examples of poor driving. Apparently over there the drivers test is hard and you actually have to know how to drive to get a license.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 05:39 pm:

I like the idea of an air horn pointed to the rear!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 06:04 pm:

Randy, my gripe exactly. A driver's license is nothing more than another tax, it has nothing to do with insuring drivers are able to handle their machines, or know the rules of the road. I do think over half the drivers on the road would not pass a reasonable test.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 12:10 pm:

How about a radar activated siren, pointed toward the rear, that emits an ear piercing electronic siren type noise (not a traditional wail). It would work for "tailgaters", too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Humphrey on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 12:27 pm:

Wes,
After watching your Video..It has come to my belief that things were crowded in the towns.. but if we could get rid of all the cars produced after 1927 our troubles would be over..
We would have lots more hwy. room now...

Thanks for the clip...Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 12:48 pm:

Air horn guaranteed to crack automotive windshields at 50 paces pointed to rear cost no object!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 05:58 pm:

I talked with Karen yesterday on my way home. Both are home and it was Bud who was kept over night. He is still on Oxygen because of shallow breathing. Karen has some road rash from her tumble down and into the ditch. X-rays and CT show no broken bones for ether of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 06:58 pm:

I have been rear ended twice while pulling a trailer.

Once just east of Barstow along I-40 at sunrise doing the legal California speed limit of 55 mph for towing - by a woman asleep at the wheel with the cruise control set at 79 mph.

That accident shut down I-40 for a few hours.

The occupants of that vehicle were backboarded to the hospital after hitting the front windshield.

Once outside of Phoenix about 11 pm on I-10 doing the speed limit by ? doing 85 mph or more - hit & run.

I survived both because I had 20K surrounding me.

Regardless of how accidents come about - if you are in a relatively light vehicle - you are a target for injury or death.


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 10:19 am:

Jim,

I usually dont carry that much cash when driving!

I guess if you used smaller denominations and you evenly stuffed it in all your pockets it would be a decent amount of padding.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 10:56 am:

^^^^^ that was funny. NOTE: not to make light of this accident but it was funny


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale L Myers on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 11:25 am:

People sometimes run into the back of bright yellow DOT dump trucks with flashing lights. I don't think there is any FOOLproof safety device.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 12:34 pm:

I think self driving vehicles and collision avoidance devices are a bad idea. Once people get used to them, they will rely on them and drive even worse in vehicles that don't have them. My truck has a back-up camera and warning beeper that tells me I'm about to back into something. My car does not, but let me drive my truck a few days and then get into my car and I find myself backing out of my parking place at work and not paying real close attention to how close to the building I am getting. It's quite embarrassing to admit this, but it is the truth and as bad as some like to tailgate nowadays, I can't imagine how bad that will be when everyone gets used to a car that fixes that for them and then they get behind the wheel of something that don't. People should be more responsible for their actions, not less.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 02:01 pm:

This was viewed on the PowerNation segment this morning:

Semi-Autonomous Technology Isnít Taking Off With Buyers
07/05/2017

We know that Americans arenít ready to give up full control of their cars just yet. But now Jalopnik reports thereís a study that says car buyers arenít even on board with semi-autonomous features like lane-departure assist or adaptive cruise control.

J.D. Powerís Initial Quality Study showed that buyers are increasingly dissatisfied with the semi-autonomous features on new vehicles. The majority of people surveyed who commute in high-traffic areas, which makes sense that they wouldnít like the sensitive features. But will automakers pay attention to surveys like this or will they continue the push for semi to fully autonomous cars?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 04:46 pm:

This is linked to the "problem" of licensing not being geared to screening drivers for knowledge and ability. The "system" caved in to a population that would not stand for anything that denied them access to driving. It's a "control" issue. Similarly, the population in general will not readily accept anything that takes away their sense of control.

As a proposition, the folks who are designing and engineering autonomous features for vehicles are, of course, "sold" on the advisability of the concept. It won't be auto-makers who will "push" for autonomous vehicles, it will be . . . government !

Consider the difference between cars made in the mid-60's, and all of the features of a 2017 model, mandated by government either to lessen emissions or provide for safety.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 05:37 pm:

And yet those same people keep voting for people that take away their money, liberties and rights. Too bad they don't see what real control is, and where it is important, instead of worrying about the perception of control, while ignoring the responsibility that goes along with it.
My two cents.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 09:14 pm:

Very well said, Wayne !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 10:39 pm:

Thank you Rich B! Even a crazy person likes to be appreciated once in awhile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 11:35 pm:

We have a guy close to our family that has been picked up at least three times for expired registration.
In early April he got caught on his cell phone. The registration was a week expired too.
The car was not registered in his name yet.
He gets out in August!
Some damn fools just never learn.
Try explaining that one to his two little kids.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 08:38 am:

Speaking of drivers licenses, I am amazed at the number of folks ticketed for various offenses that are in the twenties and sometimes in their thirties and have never gotten any drivers licenses.

How do they get insurance - if they have any? How do they get a license for their car - if it's their car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 09:01 am:

Although I agree with all who feel that a person should actually have to demonstrate his/her ability to drive before being issued a driver's license; I'm afraid that until folks start taking driving seriously, making the test more difficult would be just another piece of "feel good" legislation. (48 word sentence!) If people would just obey existing laws, and in fairness - the laws should be made as reasonable as possible, and roads should be made safer. Two examples of this are 70+ speed limit changes on Rt 301 from interstate 4 in Jacksonville FL to a point 80 miles south to the connector to Rt I 75. An example of bad road design can be found in numerous entrances and exits from rt I 495 in Massachusetts. A turn radius is established, then the radius is tightened significantly. There has been at least one fatal accident on the ramp from Rt 1 north to I 495 north for that reason. FWIW: The most dangerous year for auto fatalities in the USA per 100 million vehicle miles traveled was 1909 with more then 45 deaths per 100Miles driven. The safest was 2007 (the latest figures that I found) with 1.38 deaths per 100 Miles traveled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 12:23 pm:

Wonder how the rate of deaths per hundred miles driven in Model T's compares with deaths per 100 miles driven in modern cars?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 08:55 pm:

45 deaths per 100 miles? Come on, I don't think so.
So every time somebody drives 2 miles somebody dies?
I doubt it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 09:20 pm:

I think a transcription error. A few decimal points dropped. Maybe a hundred thousand miles? No, It took me a few minutes to find it on Google. Although my search skills are limited, and most of the findings were difficult to follow, it appears to be about 1.37 plus per hundred million miles for 2007. My search for 1909 statistics found pages I couldn't read.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 09:35 pm:

That's more like it.
I did no notice several hundred dead people along my 30 mile trip to work and back today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 10:04 pm:

Even with the error, whether his or what he copied from, John Codman's point is a good one. And I thank him for it. John C did actually get the number right at one point in his next-to-last sentence.
Thank you John C!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, July 07, 2017 - 11:00 pm:

I find it incredible that any reputable source of compiled statistics would even present such figures for 1909 in good faith. For one thing, I rather doubt if an accurate figure for the number of automobiles on American roads in 1909 is even possible to obtain, since vehicle registrations were far from uniform in that year. Some states (like Idaho) had not yet required automobiles to be registered. How could mileage data even begin to be figured ?

Certainly it would be possible to obtain a reasonably accurate figure for the number of automobile related fatalities that occurred in 1909, but in all fairness, I think comparing fatalities per miles traveled that year, however arrived at, to similar statistics for the year 2007 is about as pertinent as comparing the specifications of a Model T with specs for whatever 2007 make / model you'd care to choose. So much changed in the past century one may as well purport to present and compare figures from 1709 for horse-drawn vehicle fatalities per number of miles traveled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, July 08, 2017 - 12:09 am:

Rich B, So very true. And probably, the accidents with horses were far worse per mile than almost anything in the past century (probably not D-day).
The circumstances, conditions, and experience involved are so completely different as to be as much an "apples and oranges" comparison as anything else.
The source that Google did "show" me for statistics clear back to 1909 was a page scanned onto a computer and uploaded onto a website. The scan was poor quality, but appeared to be several years old, maybe even type-written. Except for a caption provided with the scan, I couldn't read any of it on my computer. I don't know if it would be because of my slow connection, or just the terrible quality of the scan.

Rich B, Do you still have your horse? If so, give him (her?) an apple for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Saturday, July 08, 2017 - 05:06 pm:

Wayne, it would be interesting to know more about the original of that unreadable 1909 page of information . . . as for "horse wrecks", I tend to think that fatalities were likely few, relatively, and though injuries may have been plentiful and frequent, I'd think that generally, the collision of muscle and bone on muscle and bone at "speeds" normally under 10mph would have been far less grisly even than injuries in early automobile accidents would have been, given the impact of muscle and bone on sharp metal and plate glass at speeds 20mph and over . . .

Yep, we keep three saddle horses and a harness pony, all of whom greatly appreciated your gift of an apple apiece !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 01:50 am:

We enjoy a lot of country roads around here, but we also have a relatively high population density with a large mix of people who shouldn't be driving cars! On the back roads, more often than not I am confronted by operators driving their cars on the wrong side of the road.

I lost my father to a pickup driver stoned out of his mind and driving recklessly (he's in the pen for murder/25 years; I lost an uncle to a careless truck driver; and I lost my best friend to a cellphone driver. We're already very late for severe citations and revocation of driving privileges for repeat offenders.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 09:47 am:

From what I read in the paper, you can revoke their drivers license, but they drive anyway. Heck, I see quite often that there are drivers in their 30's that have never gotten a drivers license.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 10:05 am:

Yup, A failure of proofreading. Although I did say 100 million miles in one spot, I omitted the word "million" in two others. Mia culpa.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 10:39 am:

The dangers in 1909 with 45 deaths per 100 million miles driven was likely much due to pedestrian culture that hadn't yet adjusted for the new dangers of speedy vehicles on the road.
Up until then you could cross the street mostly anytime without much danger. Adjusting to the rapid growth of cars and motorcycles much faster than the usual horse traffic must have taken some years - and a lot of lives, unfortunately. Remember the moving pictures from days before the SF earthquake 1906 - every one was crisscrossing right in front of the streetcar without much care..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pEvB_ZIWtAg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 11:50 am:

I consider this the best version of the wonderful Market Street footage. It's the most complete, and has very well done sound rather than unfortunate modern music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YRbMMqj0qw


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 12:15 pm:

The 1906 Market Street footage is certainly an eye opener. Itís like looking through a window into the past. Thanks for posting the youtube links Roger and Steve!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 04:54 pm:

That is no less than wonderful, Steve. Thank you very much for posting that link.

To my eye, the automobilists are going awfully fast for the traffic they are running in, and more than one takes what appears to be unnecessary risks. I hope that had to do with the camera angle as opposed to their recklessness !

Another thing that struck me about this footage, those who often seem obsessed with "road apples" might note how clean the streets appear to be, considering all that horse traffic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 07:37 pm:

Rich, at one spot in the video I saw a man scrapping road apples off the street. He was on the right side of the street.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 08:12 pm:

Dean, thanks for noting that. Gives me a good excuse to watch it again ! (And again and again )

S.F.D.S.S. on the job, and doing it well, no doubt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 09:59 pm:

That video was taken less than a week before the great San Francisco earth quake, so I have read.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 10:21 pm:

Thanks Steve. I cant imagine why someone invented turn signals and traffic lanes and directions. I did not see anybody texting and driving but still dangerous to be on that street. What a great look at that time in history. I liked the kid playing chicken with the street car. Maybe just hamming it up for the camera.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 12:50 am:

Painted traffic lanes didn't come along until 1917, maybe because nobody thought of it before then, but most roads and streets were dirt before then, too.

Some interesting details are the bicycle having no trouble with the cable car tracks, the horse car crossing and running alongside, and the guy in front of the ferry terminal with his beard blowing in the wind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 09:24 am:

Reminds me of driving in Thailand, it takes a good bit of adjustment. Not to mention its all backwards or at least backwards to an American driver.

Now in Thailand if you paid attention to the news a while back they are under a general and there was a coup. However, when asking about what plans/permits are needed for building a house the response is a blank look. Why wouldn't you be able to do/build what you want on your land is the response you get. And yet we seem to live in a free country and they do not, or at least thats what we are told.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 11:19 am:

I believe that all the sounds were dubbed in after the film was made because talking pictures didn't appear until 1927. They did a good job.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 11:20 am:

At first I was wondering why most of the tops were down on the cars, then I thought the way they drive on either side of the street and cut every body off, it is more than likely for good visibility. Could you imagine how many accidents there would be driving that way with the poor visibility in our modern cars?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 11:26 am:

I believe all the sounds in that film were dubbed in because talking pictures didn't appear until 1927. They did a very good job.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 01:30 pm:

I don't know why the message didn't get posted right after I sent it? I even went back a few minutes later and looked for it, but it wasn't there so I posted again. It makes me look stupid, when in reality it is a glitch in the forum. This has happened more than once. Usually it comes right up after I post.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 03:54 pm:

This film has been discussed before. If you notice, a lot of the worst driving is the same few cars going both directions and passing the trolley again. A few of the cars also appear to be the same marque (Winton if I recall correctly?). It has been suggested that the local dealer sent a few people out to show off their cars when the film was being made.
Another interesting side-note about the timing of this film. It was made only a short time before the great Earthquake. They, of course, had no clue as to the historic nature the film would become so soon after. A little later, some time after the quake, the trolley line had been cleaned up, along with much of the street. An effort was made to duplicate this run down market street, showing the devastation of the quake. And a lot less traffic.
At some point (I do not know when), someone split the two films, carefully timing them, so that the one side of the film showed Market street before the quake, while the other side showed it after the quake. An interesting view to say the least.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 05:52 pm:

If they were new dealer cars it would explain why the brass is so shiny.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Lawrence - Nevada City, CA on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 06:04 pm:

One more of the touring cars circling the street car are White steam touring cars. I also spotted an Autocar runabout coming from the opposite direction. Most of the other cars are moving to fast to identify.
When I watch this film I Can't help but wonder how many of the people in the film died in the quake. It makes me wonder also how many of those cars were destroyed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Lawrence - Nevada City, CA on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 06:07 pm:

Should have read: One or more


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 10:18 pm:

Hey there Phil! Always glad to see your comments here.
I know I saw at least one White, and the Autocar, but it has been a couple years since I viewed the whole film.
I would speculate that most of the people you get to see, survived the Earthquake. Considering how severe the quake was, the death toll (estimated at about 3000) was not too bad actually considering that the population was said to be about 400,000. (The problem being that my quick look for numbers are not confirmed, and I suspect a little manipulation could be involved with the actual damage area stretching a couple hundred miles North and South.) I did see a number given that the dollars damage when corrected to today's dollars would equal about eight billion dollars. That Earthquake is still considered by many to have been the worst natural disaster in the Americas, and most certainly among the worst.
Most of the real damage was done by the fire that followed the quake. After recent discussions of wildfires, I looked up some numbers from the 1991 Oakland Hills wildfire, which I very much remember (I had several good friends living in that area, all fortunately okay). As I recall, the statistic was about 2600 homes destroyed. The 1906 Earthquake and fire destroyed about 28,000 homes and businesses. More than ten times as many. Considering the over-all lower population density of the day, I find those numbers amazing.
Most horses were so spooked by the quake, fires, and after-shocks, that they became unreliable during the aftermath. It is a matter of history that most of the motorcars in the city were commandeered for emergency services during the aftermath. Many of the dealers, including a struggling Ford dealer, offered up their stock quickly, and of course built upon the marketing later. I used to know a fellow in the Horseless Carriage Club that had a model F Ford that was known to have served in the quake aftermath. It was considered a point of pride to the entire club.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, July 15, 2017 - 11:36 pm:

Linda inherited some prints direct from glass negatives of the Aftermath; pictures I've not seen published anywhere. The fire is really scary in the pictures. She also got a book published right after the quake about the quake. Some stories are repeated, the book was so rushed into print. On of the multiple stories mentions folks trapped in debris and asking to be shot before they burned to death. It was an incredible tragedy. Now that I have the ability to scan the images, I should digitize them for posterity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Roberson on Monday, July 17, 2017 - 04:20 pm:

Pierce-Arrow Society found some "slow moving vehicle" triangles with flashing LED lighting and magnets to hold it in place. They are vinyl so confirm to curves OK and were cheap about $20. Good idea. Note: will not stick to aluminum bodies though!
People will run over you any more because they are distracted AND many are just poor drivers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Archer Hayward, CA. on Monday, July 17, 2017 - 10:00 pm:

If anyone cares, the Autocar in the pre earthquake film still exists and is fully restored living in Santa Clara. They were able to chase the license number down to verify. I stumbled onto it while doing some auto appraisals.

Ed aka #4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Monday, July 17, 2017 - 10:18 pm:

Ed, I care. That is very interesting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, July 17, 2017 - 10:45 pm:

Ed A, That is fantastic! Thank you for that one.


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