Rear axle Hubs, Are there different versions?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Rear axle Hubs, Are there different versions?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Smith on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 05:41 pm:

I have been fitting hubs to the rear axle and have found that there maybe 2 different styles. Is there a difference in the early hubs versus those for '26 - '27 years? On what I suspect are 26-27 hubs, the center hub extends out from the flange an extra inch or so more than that of what I assume is an older style. How would that effect the spacing for the brake drum to the backing plate and are these hubs interchangeable with those used on the 8 inch drums which appear to be shorter in the hub area? I guess the better question would be if there is a difference between the hubs used on the larger brake system versus the 8 inch brake system?
Thanks in advance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 07:09 pm:

Paul, as far as I know, the hubs in wooden spoke wheels for both 23" clincher wheels and 21" straight sided wheels on the improved cars of 26-7 are the same. The wire wheel hubs are different.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Smith on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 07:53 pm:

Thanks Allan
I also noticed that the wire wheel hubs have 5 carriage bolt holes as the wooden wheel hubs have 6.
The height of that center hub from the flange is what has me baffled. There has to be something I am missing here.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Paul
Arizona


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 10:36 pm:

Pictures Paul. The 5 lug bolt wire wheels didn't use carriage bolts. Are the bolts 5 on 5" or other?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Smith on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 10:53 am:

Mark, Allan
Here is a shot of the 2 hubs that I am working with.
Note the height of the center hub portion. Both are from wood wheels and have 6 holes on the flange.
PaulRear wheel hubs


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 11:01 am:

Please don't use those awful store bought carriage bolts. Buy the correct ones from Langs, or RV Anderson! I also don't like those gaps between your spokes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank in Humboldt, TN on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 11:14 am:

Those hubs are the same. You have to allow for the thickness of the spokes and the outer plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 11:14 am:

sorry I misread the part about 5 bolt holes. You show a hub installed in the wheel and one sitting by it. Where are you getting the extra inch? Once the hub is placed in the wheel and the plate is installed you will have the same exposure where the hub cap threads on, both wheels. The flange on the hub is on the back side of the wheel and you need to subtract the thickness of the spokes and cover plate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Seress, Prescott Az. on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 01:36 pm:

What Paul is getting at is the axle has a free floating hub and the rocky mountain drum on the inside of the wheel which makes the axle too short and the outside nut will only thread onto the axle about halfway. If he cranks down on the nut at the end of the axle the emergency brake shoes lock up the whole thing and nothing moves. He is doing a favor for a lady who owns the car and the restoration has been started by several people and the whole thing is a nightmare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 02:50 pm:

Other than getting the longer reproduction axles, the only solution I'm familiar with is a shim on the axle. This has to be done carefully to work well too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Smith on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 05:49 pm:

Thanks Mark
I was missing the point of the cover being seated on top of the wooden spokes. It's a lot clearer now.
Thanks again.
Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 07:33 pm:

There are 2 different rear hubs that I'm aware of - early (who knows when) had nearly a full width of thread in the hubcap area - later in production (and I'm assuming as a cost-cutting step), the threaded potion was reduced significantly - I'll try & take a comparison photo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 09:26 pm:

Steve, I believe the castings were the same, just the machining for the hubcap differed. I have sometimes turned off some damaged thread at the start, leaving plenty further in on the hub to engage the cap. An easy fix.
The large brake drum and the small drum both mount in the same place on the hub with the same 6 holes. There are a few improved cars with large drums on 23" wooden wheels to prove this.

The addition of floating rear axle bearings means that the nuts on the 6 bolts are much closer to the brake linings/cam/pivot bolt. If the hub and the axle are worn, they will foul. A shim may fix the problem. If not, the longer axles are required. I have had to use a shim, but have yet to need longer axles. Before I would resort to that fix,I would explore replacing a worn hub.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 09:55 pm:

deleat.

(Message edited by redmodelt on July 05, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Smith on Thursday, July 06, 2017 - 11:24 pm:

One last question for everyone.
Does anyone know where I could find a Working Drawing for the original Ford Model T rear axle?
I would like to compare those measurements with my application so I can tell where I need to be with the safety hubs that we are using.
Thanks again
Paul


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