Stop Leak Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Stop Leak Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 06:51 pm:

When I bought my í27 Touring in 1988 I found that it had a small weeping crack in the engine water jacket on the driverís side toward the front, just under the cylinder head. It was easily stopped with a small bottle of Bars Leak. I repeated this treatment several times when I would drain and flush the system from time to time.
When it recently started weeping again I tried to find a same small bottle of Bars Leak but could only find a larger size one. This larger size is supposed to treat up to 4 gallons of water/antifreeze. After adding two bottles of this, the weeping continues and the drain valve weeps a little too.
I have drained and flushed the system and followed the instructions on the bottles. After idling for about 40 minutes I drove the car about 50 miles in near 100 degree heat. After that the temperature of the block at the crack measured about 208 degrees as did the top radiator tank. The bottom tank measured about 140 degrees. The weeping continues.
All suggestions on what to do next will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Robert


leak


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 06:58 pm:

Remove and have the head ground flat, then replace the head gasket and be sure to use copper-Kote spray on both sides as the block is surely pitted at this point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 07:02 pm:

Robert, it might be time to have the crack repaired rather than repeatedly trying to seal it. It looks like a candidate for metal stitching. A good machine shop should be able to advise you if this is a suitable process in your engine, and it should be do-able in the car, given the room to move that you have.

Others may have different ideas.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 07:42 pm:

You know, I suppose it would have been better to pay closer attention to the words than the picture. My suggestion was completely inappropriate for the situation at hand. My apologies.

Been a long day...Allan is right. I am not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 07:59 pm:

Robert, You could try this: Drain the radiator then dry the area of the crack and clean it of all rust, gunk and paint down to cast iron. Then use JB Weld over the crack area and let it cure as per JB Weld instructions. This should work OK for most cracks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Plank in Humboldt, TN on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 09:14 pm:

My 27 block had two cracks where it curves under the bottom of the water jacket on the left side. They didn't show up until the block heated up. I drained the water out, lightly ground the areas clean with a Dremel sanding drum, and laid on some JB Weld epoxy water putty. After curing 24 hours, I refilled the coolant and it has not leaked since. It's good stuff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steven miller on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 - 10:28 pm:

Bars Leak is a great product for a pressurized heater system. It relies on escaping pressure to carry it to a leak.
Flush it from your rad and block then as others have mention JB Weld it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 12:53 am:

I'm with Kevin, Dennis and Steve.
Try the JB Weld. It might cure that leak for many, many years.
Allan is also correct, for a permanent fix.
:-)
Scott, no way. You are simply thinking farther out in a time line for Robert. :-) AKA, thinking ahead.
Your notions will make complete sense when Robert pulls the head and does a valve job in the future. :-)

Robert, do you know what exact color your Runabout is, in your profile?
The '18 Runabout here begs to be painted something different, perhaps a medium garnet/maroon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 07:07 am:

Thanks to all of you. I think Iíll go the JB Weld route. It will take a little time though as I have an appointment with my doctor in Houston tomorrow and donít yet know when I can get back here. The last time I had the head off the car was in October, 2013 when it got a ring and valve job. I put a small bottle of Bars Leak in it then and it worked until a few weeks ago. This time when I drained and flushed it, the radiator drain plug handle was real tight to turn and I had to force a pick tool into the drain hole to get it to flow. Also the hoses seemed to be glued on. Iím thinking that the new, larger size bottles of Bars Leak may have been reformulated.
Duey, I bought both of my Tís back in 1988. First one was the red í22 roadster which was my 55th birthday present to myself. I have no idea what color paint the farmer/machinist I bought it from used but the paint job is obviously an amateur one. I bought the í27 touring about 3 months later. It was a near basket case, the victim of one the Texas hurricane floods.
Iíll let everyone know how this turns out when after get back to it.
Thanks again to all of you, Robert.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 01:32 pm:

Robert, Here's another suggestion for you instead of the JB weld. Get happy with a Permatex product called Ultra Black. You can use it for darn near everything!
Many T's have freeze cracks just like yours. A proper permanent fix is great at the right time but if your not ready for an O/H try this.

My experience with JB weld has been that it is not flexible. I've had great results with the Ultra Black.

Clean the surface and make sure it's oil free! For best results open the crack slightly on the surface and apply a coat of the RTV. For extra strength I applied a piece of shim stock on top and applied another coat of the Ultra. Let it cure overnight and give it a coat of paint and you have cured your coolant leak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 01:41 pm:

Robert is from Burton, Texas. They have a cotton gin there powered by a huge single cylinder engine which runs on distillate. The engine is started on compressed air if I remember correctly. The compressor is driven by a Model T engine. When we visited there on the Texas T Party a few years back all was in working order. I believe once a year they hold a celebration in town and operate the gin.

Robert, please fill in the blanks and correct me where I am in error.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 03:04 pm:

Thanks Gene, I didn't think about this. The front passenger side port was rotted/rusted out badly and the previous owner had repaired this with JB Weld or something like it. It started coming out after a few years. A boat mechanic suggested repairing it with Ultra Copper (or something like that) which I did and it would hold for about 3 or 4 years. When I found out about the new type of copper glands I switched to these and this has worked just fine for me. I think I'll try your idea first and see how it works out. At my age it could easily outlive me.
Ted, yes you are correct except that I heard that they got rid of the T engine and replaced it with some kind of electric motor to fill the air tank. My neighbor is a volunteer who works on the engine but I don't see him much. I drove my '22 roadster to the parade this year and my wife followed me in my '34 roadster. As I pulled into the registration area I noticed a huge cloud of white smoke (steam). I knew I had blown a head gasket so I parked it and we got my trailer and brought it home. This is the only thing that I have done to that engine since I bought the car in 1988 except for normal maintenance. I had the head trued up and installed a new gasket and all is fine now.
Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 07:42 pm:

I commented on this issue several days ago but I will repeat it. I once needed to stop a block leak and was told to go to the DRUG store and by a quart of LIQUID GLASS. Drain the anti-freeze as it won't work with it and fill with pure water. It worked within several miles of driving. Of course the best fix is brazing/welding but I know this worked for me. I don't know if any of the "new" drug stores have it. Dick C.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 08:23 pm:

This is what R. S. C. is talking about: https://www.amazon.com/Laguna-Clay-Sodium-Silicate-pint/dp/B0019LVJO0


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Wednesday, July 05, 2017 - 09:49 pm:

Ahh yes, the almost elusive "water glass" or "egg preservative" right?
Most drug stores may not have a clue, Dick C is right, mine didn't 20 years ago for a leaky Twin City tractor engine head.
Gene's also very correct about ultra black. Great stuff!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Sunday, July 09, 2017 - 03:27 pm:

I got back here (Burton, Texas) and used the Permatex Ultra Black and let it set for about 36 hours. When I wire brushed it I discovered that the crack extended about a half inch further south than I thought it was. My wife, dog and I took it for a drive today and the crack area was as dry as a bone after it cooled off. Luckily the petcock stopped leaking too as I expected it to leak there. Hopefully this will last. We hope to take the car on the Texas T party tour in October.
Thanks again to all, Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Green - So Cal on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 04:40 pm:

"Barís Leaksģ Liquid Copperô Block Seal Intake & Radiator Stop Leak seals larger leaks regular stop leaks wonít. One step formula permanently repairs larger leaks in radiators, intake manifolds & gaskets, heater cores, blocks, heads and freeze plugs. Use on cars, trucks, vans, SUVís and RVís. One ď1Ē Step Sealer contains an antifreeze compatible sodium silicate liquid glass formula, so no draining of the cooling system is required. It will not harm the cooling system when used properly."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 10:37 pm:

Yet another Ultra Black success story Wahoo! Like the guy on TV says about the flex seal stuff.

Glad its working for you. Keep the rest handy for a thousand other uses as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 05:19 pm:

Robert, I have had good luck with Iriontite ceramic seal. The way I use it is different from the instructions since a model T doesn't have a water pump and you don't want to junk up the radiator.

I remove the radiator outlet and plug the bottom hose and fill the water system with a solution of Irontite and water (well mixed). I then put a PVC plug in the upper hose. That plug has a tire valve core in it so I can pump it up to around four or five PSI with my compressor or a tire pump. I run the engine until it's warm and let it sit for maybe 10 to 20 minutes after this I drain the system and hook the radiator back up, fire the engine up and see if it's leaking or not.

If you save the solution you can repeat this treatment several times until it works.

TH


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