Well, I am perplexed. I have listed our 1926 Paco style speedster 3 times on EBAY and had zero bids.! This is an exceptional car, not an amateur build. I saved many parts for 40 yrs while restoring cars for other people for this project and used only the nicest pieces. My costs without labor, shipping, paint , sandblasting excede $23,000. Over a thousand lookers but no bidders. This car draws a big crowd at every car meet I take it too. Whether hot rod or antique auto as this Paco style boat tail speedster is not the usual speedster. Is the market for these cars going away? Maybe only us oldsters like these cars ? Paul Larson built the original body and prior to chassis fitting we had $5500 just in the body and side skirts. i put $5500 into its leather and Tonneau and "Ron's Machine Shop" Built and balanced the motor and trans. Stan Howe supplied the rare Rayfield carb on the list goes on and on....
eBay is for the bottom feeders. I am a power seller on eBay so I'm not badmouthing them, it's just the way it is. Someone is bidding on something that they cannot see, touch, feel, haaar, drive, etc.
Plus shipping. If you had a reserve, but no minimum bid, I'm sure you'd get bids. But they would stop far below yur reserve.
And, of course, remember, that what you spent on the creation has absolutely no bearing on the market price. A nice little speedster that I saw at an auction sold for just under 10K and it had lots of brass.
I would think Hemmings, the classifieds here or some other sort of specialized to the hobby marketing might be a better venue that eBay. Perhaps contact one of the auction houses in your area?
What on eBay was the listing number was it a buy it now or auction style
You don't state your asking price, nor show any pictures of the car. You don't state what you have done to the engine and drive train. Regardless of how much you have spent on your project, the car will only sell for approximately the same amount which other speedsters sell for. That is the way the game is played. Same goes for any other work such as restoration. It will sell for what the buyer and seller agree to trade and not a penny more.
Well I have had over 600 sales of T & A parts on EBAy with 100% record but I agree about bottom feeders. in fact after selling T parts since 1965 i thought most T guys were cheap, but after yrs of selling and restoring Packards, Studes & Austin Healey 3000's I went back to my roots ( T's) for a few cars. Now we are moving to a 3 car garage house and no barn so a few cars must go. I used to get sell on Hemmings when it was about 10 pages of Pink paper but never sold cars thru Hemmings. I tried to sell a race spec built '53 flathead on EBAY and no one bid on that either. If no one wants the car complete I guess I will break it in to components....
Car was auction style with buy it now and reserve and 12 pictures on the listing. I listed all the details in depth about the drive line . Who built what and what it cost to do so. #122566412096. Tried Craigs list as well. No luck.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-Ford-Model-T-/122566412096?hash=item1c89870740%3Ag% 3AmhAAAOSwrfVZRnoI&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=3skn4PWJUQ%252BowNeVoftOCBGFg%252F8%253D& orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Shows 3 bids, but the reserve was not met.
So what are you asking for it.
I fully understand where your coming from, I had a guy stop me once on a corner last year and asked me if I would be willing to sell my 19. I agreed and ask $22,000 with the trailer. He went on here and asked about it and a bunch of good for nothing amateurs here on the forum tore it up not knowing that I have close $23,000 invested in it. Everything from the radiator to the Ruxtell rear was new. I even showed him the build sheet from George King and all the receipts from everything else. In a funny twist, This guy bought a car from out of state and had me get it running. I never hold a grudge. It took me three weeks but I got his car running and all I asked in return was a for a thank you of which I received. But all ends well because I will never sell my 19 now. I built it to be a car that a person could depend on to take me any distance and bring me home. Anyone that has ever built a car knows first hand the cost of doing it from the bottom up. Its no easy task, In the end your time and labor means nothing. When I get ready to restore the 26 the same care and professionalism will go into this car as did my 19. My kids will enjoy my two Model T's when I leave this earth and my only hope is that someday my two T's will be left to my two grandsons. Like someone mentioned, E bay is full of bottom feeders. I have been on this forum for more years that I can remember and if you notice I never say anything negative about anyone's car. Its because they worked there butts off to make it work. When you advertise your car no one see's the countless hours that got put into it, All they see is a car.
For speedster guys there isn't much zip. I know you say it's "fast" but it looks like a very nice stockish T. Speedster guys may be looking for that aux trans, gearing, overhead, carbs, exotic drop etc. What I see is a very "authentic" speedster i.e. something that was a model T and made into a speedster to make the T look more sporty. Mostly bolt on equipment.
May I suggest you advertise it more as an authentic styled speedster rather than what was invested to get it to that point.
The only hobby car I ever broke even or made money on was a 1971 Plymouth Barracuda convertible. All the others were sold for less than I had in them.
That's why they call it a hobby and not a business, I guess.
Good luck with your sale.
Doesn't look much like a Paco. Speedsters are hard to price. Brass speedsters seem to sell for more than they should because they are shiny. Chadwick is right, not much in the way of speed equipment. EBay may be a lot of things but the prices generally end up where they belong.
I think Chadwick is right on. Pay most attention to his last sentence...that is EXACTLY advice I'd have given.
And we all still want to know: What exactly do you want for this car? If it is for sale, you have that number immediately at hand.
Why don t you sell it Howard Sharp or Jim Davjs just down the road from you in Egypt / Fairport they buy those speedsters all the time
Why don t you sell it Howard Sharp or Jim Davjs just down the road from you in Egypt / Fairport they buy those speedsters all the time
I suggest taking much better photos using better and more strategic camera angles for listing. In my opinion, you are not doing a very good job of staging in the photos.
For example: the first photo where you can see junk on the left - not good due to the viewing angle of the car and the junk showing.
Both indoor photos aren't flattering at all - the gravel floor in one, parked in front of a large sheet of plywood and on top of oily cardboard floor in the other.
Park the car in a better spot - avoid parking by clutter and objects that will detract from the car. Park on a clean driveway, parking lot or grass. Don't park on weeds.
The very first photo should be what is called three-quarter shot of the car where you can see the front and the side of the car.
Here is a suggested list of 12 shots (eBay's maximum amount of photos) to put in your listing:
1 - three-quarter shot of front and side
2 - three-quarter shot of rear and side
3 - full-on front of car (lens parallel to front axle)
4 - full-on rear of car (lens parallel to rear axle)
5 - full-on right side of car (lens parallel to side)
6 - full-on left side of car (lens parallel to side)
7 - three-quarter shot of engine looking rearward so you can also see the firewall
8- three-quarter shot of engine looking forward so you can see the back of the radiator
9 - full-on right side of engine (lens parallel to the side)
10 - full-on left side of engine (lens parallel to the side)
11 - three-quarter shot of cockpit looking forward (so you can see steering wheel, instrument panel, pedals and opposite side interior door panel)
12 - three-quarter shot of cockpit looking rearward (so you can see upholstery and opposite side interior door panel)
If you want to include more specific detail shots, then consider could providing a link to photo sharing website such as Photobucket and post as many photos as you desire.
Here is an example of a front, three-quarter shot:
Investment in a car doesn't mean squat to a buyer. It carries even less weight when the seller says he has over $23,000 in sandblasting alone. That is a ridiculous number and might indicate the parts came off the bottom of a lake! That number makes no sense. I could media blast a car lot full of cars for that.
It's obvious you paid more for the car than it's worth. Don't expect others to do the same. I agree, drop all prices for parts and list the factual selling points.
If you desire a critique I suggest,
1) that no photos have people or clutter around them,
2) no sunset or bright sunny photos as they display too much contrast,
3) use cloudy days and right after the sun is no longer shining bright,
4) no gravel or dirt on the ground showing,
5) plain landscape is better than trees,
6) cover or remove the license plate,
7) no hand written list, use typed and printed out,
8) use tripod, blurry photo noted,
9) full shot photos should not have the car cut off on one end,
10) include one photo underneath chassis. FWIW
A few problems here. First it's a speedster. Very limited market in a limited T market. Second is price. News flash: you're not going to get what you put in. Especially if you're counting every nut and bolt. It just won't wash. A thousand looks without a bid should tell you something which is take a loss or keep it. Tourings & brass cars carry the high price tags. You escentially have a very nice kit car.
Very nice looking speedster. You have repeatedly stated the value of the parts you've used being more than $20k. I think it's worth mentioning that I have rarely seen any T's, speedster or otherwise, advertised at that price, even on this site where people seem to know values. In fact running driving cars have been advertised for than $10k over on the classifieds. Some people couldn't even give their cars away.
This is a good lesson for anyone else thinking about building a speedster or restoring a car.
I hope it finds a good home.
Good Evening Ed:
What do you want for the car? I might be interested.
You start a thread inquiring about how you can't sell your Speedster on ebay after listing it (3) times ....
At least (2) guys have asked how much you want for it ...
Are you going to post a reply on the thread you started ?
I both bought sold cars on ebay photos price and willingness chat all tire kickers
Must respond within a day or so not asap but dont put it off
I currently have a t speedster on ebay fair price
Only reason it forsale
Wanting to buy another T that fits my needs and use for a second car better
The rock bottom price is $14000. If that doesn't work I will part it out. I have sold a 1913 Hack & a 1927 touring on Ebay in last couple yrs easily. Got my price on both.
Can we see pics of the car?
Seth, check the link above and it should take you to the ended ebay listing. 14k is not unheard of for a speedster however at that price either you are getting a great deal on a really built car (performance parts wise), are dealing with superb fit and finish (as the red speedster shown a while back with the highly raked seats), lots of brass, or something somebody loves. Unfortunatly for yours to fetch that money being bid on is going to require 2 people in the same week that fall in love with it.
Nice car. I knew Paul Larson.
FYI he was from Clear Lake, Iowa not Idaho.
The negative comments in this thread concerning ebay are unfounded.
There is absolutely no better way to reach so many potential buyers than through ebay. To say that ebay is for "bottom feeders" is misleading and incorrect. I purchase from ebay regularly and I can assure you that I am not a "bottom feeder". Before I bid or make a purchase I do my homework and contact the seller directly. I sell regularly on ebay as well with much success. My items are well represented and I can usually attract the correct buyer and get top dollar.
Many folks who use ebay (buyer/seller) do not understand the ins and outs and become disappointed. I am always amused at the ones who don't get what an auction is or sellers who put their opening bid at the lowest price that they will accept. The best ones are the auctions that end in the middle of the night!
Ultimately,when used properly, ebay can be a great way to buy or sell.
Jay Leno once said something to the effect that: "You can buy a car for $6,000, put $50,000 into it, and it will be worth $13,000". The amount of time and money that you put into a car has absolutely nothing to do with what it will bring on the market.
This goes on more than you think. Lots of time and money spent on a certain car,advertising what's been done and spent and etc.
Sometime the right person comes along with the money and sometimes they don't. In this case it's the latter. Cars don't always sell "just because".
That's the bottom line.
^^^^^ Reminds me of the Bottle Rockets song, "thousand dollar car" NOTE: no disrespect meant to the OP's speedster
(Message edited by vwgary on July 10, 2017)
Thanks guys for all the comments. Perhaps I have been lucky selling T parts over the EBAY system. I would have thought the car well worth the reserve price as when I sell rusty sheet metal and parts I get good and sometimes crazy prices for parts. I can disassemble the car and use the running gear under a touring body I have so maybe thats what to do with the pieces. just the re-plated nickel, new Bergs radiator and motor cost me just under 10 grand.
Ed, part of the problem is that there are a LOT of cosmetically very nice Model Ts on the market for under $10k. Most of them need $5-7k in mechanical work, but buyers can't see that in pictures. These cars look like a bargain, and make it hard to sell cars in a higher price range.
I understand Ed's frustration about "investing" a lot of money in a vehicle and not being able to getting most of it back but there is another side to the coin!
When you have a complete history of the vehicle that includes friendship with the first owner, memories of being with your parents in the car, driving the car to high school, and now taking your grandchildren for rides, it is worth more than money.
When someone asks what it is worth, I say, "I am willing to take a dollar more that the highest offer." Some people laugh and nod in understanding, some are puzzled, and some look annoyed.
In other words the other side of the coin is it is priceless.
This is not mean to 'badmouth', but I think most members will agree; 1. a car is worth what the market will bear; not what the owner has in it, or thinks it is worth. 2. Repos or clones don't bring the same price as originals with or without history. I have easily over $15K in my 1927 coupe, but it was my Grandfather's. It is the real deal, not a clone, although not one of the rarest and most popular T years and body styles. I accept these facts and move on. Same thing applies to my 1926 fordor sedan and it doesn't even have any traceable history, although I'm not overboard as MUCH into its investment worth as I am on my coupe.
I LOVE your photo history of your Hack. Thanks for sharing!
Another thing to think about. If the auction has a reserve and you keep referring to the amount spent, then people might assume then that's the ball park of the reserve and might be less likely to bid?
Thanks Scott --
We also have the original 1919 registration.
A bit tattered but readable.
I'm new to T's but hav bought and sold more antique cars than I can literally remember. One truth I've come to know beyond doubt is that a car is worth exactly what someone will pay for it.
What an owner has invested in it has no bearing on what it's worth.
Paraphrased from Jay Leno:
"Buy a project car for 1500 bucks, invest 30 grand in the restoration, then sell it for $13,500.00"
So true Mark.
I've made money on a few of them, but mostly the opposite....which is fine. I'm not in the hobby to make money.
For what it's worth, the ones I've made money on were projects that I bought that someone had started and then given up on.
I hauled a '40 Ford coupe out of a detached garage in San Antonio one time. Paid $5,800 for a rust free body and frame, and a small mountain of restored, NOS and Bob Drake parts. It came with a rebuilt flathead and a 1939 transmission with Lincoln Zephyr gears. I put it all together over the space of a year, drove it for a while, then sold it for $23,500. That's about the best I ever made out.
Conversely, I once hand-built a 50's style T hotrod with all new parts and a junkyard 302 engine. I had about $12,000 in it and ended up selling it for $8,800 when one of my kids needed a surgery. NO ACTUAL MODEL T PARTS WERE USED!!!!
Anyway...sorry to hijack the thread Ed.
I hope your T sells for a great price.
(Message edited by rustyfords on July 10, 2017)
Good, GOOD pictures mean a lot.
The one Erik posted proves the point.
6 months ago my boss bought a 300 Mercedes diesel wagon.
We fixed a couple of problems, like A.C. Compressor, and cleaned it up nice.
He tryide to sell it for 5,000 thousand dollars. No real bites.
The young guy in the shop next door said, "How about if we split everything I get over 7,700"?
It was a deal.
The guy took 20 excellent pictures of the car and asked 8,100.
The next day, yesterday, a young whipper snapper flew in with 8,100 in his pocket and drove it home.
A good picture can be worth a thousand words.
If someone tells me they spent 20 thousand dollars getting an item fixed up I gotta assume they want at least their 20 grand back.
I am never going to be interested in a car that the owner wants 20 grand for, I won't even offend him by offering him less.
People who have old cars restored by professionals and sell them for a hobby need to get another hobby, or business.
The true fact is a speedster is personalised. You are selling YOUR idea of the ideal car. It does not have mass appeal to other buyers. To bring top dollar a plain generic unmodified car would actually garner more buying interest. Specialty-builds are tough to sell and break even. Best of luck! Gary
My car draws a crowd everywhere I take it. People tell me how much they wish it was theirs. They tell me it must be worth a hundred grand, two hundred grand even a million. I have yet to be offered even a dollar for it. Those who don't know what it's worth don't have the money. Those who do know what it's worth have the money but won't part with it.
I was pulled over by the side of the road last week and passing motorist stopped and complimented me on my car. After discussing the details of the "T" he asked me what is was worth. I told him "$10K-$12K...about half of what I have into it".
Again. Thanks everyone for your comments. It is true that this is just a Hobby for me although back in the 1970'-80's i restored cars for other people. I stopped because people never would pay their bills and didn't understand how many hours it taked to do what THEY think is a simple job. That was when we only charged $35 an hr. I went back to working as a sales engineer and selling early fords and parts there of. No doubt at least 3 semi loads of T & A parts over the yrs and double that in Studebaker Hawk stuff. I have figured out a way to double up the cars at our new house in Fla so I will take the speedster south. It may well donate components to a touring project that will be low and fast. Wife can't climb in & out of speedster so touring will be easier for her and back seat for our 2 Cardigan Corgies.
Yes Paul Larson ( Ex MTFCA Pres.) was a great guy. The Lord took him too soon. I met Paul at the Centennial in '08 and that was where the body came from. The original that he used for patterns was there as well, along with his research on the body and pictures of The "PACO Grey Eagle" which is very similar ( which is what I based my description on. Last time I saw Paul was with Mr. McCalley at the club booth at Hershey some yrs ago now. Body may be for sale early in 2018.
EBay successfully connects buyers and sellers- it is loaded with Model Ts and that sets the market price fairly well. It amused me that eBay was called a spot for "bottom feeders" yet the gentleman admitted that both of his previous cars sold for his desired price. EBay can be frustrating but that may be because we, as Model T buffs, are in a fairly small niche market.
My best advice for any T guy, (or any antique car guy), who is beginning a restoration is to throw away your calculator and do not keep your paid bills. Never look back. It never adds up...
Do it because you love it, the money loose is your admission price to the game. I have never regretted a dime spent or lost on antique cars.
(In a related story, antique canoe restoration is the same way.)
Owning an old car is kind of like buying a nice set of golf clubs, playing golf with them for several years, and trying to sell the clubs for their value plus all the green fees you've paid over the years. You'll never break even! I realize I'll never get back all I spent on the cars, but the friends we've met, stories we've swapped, and places we've seen are priceless.
Long long ago i was selling a small tractor with the line of equipment that matched it i overheard Bud's price is not bad but he want's all the gas he ever burned in it! Bud.
White cars don't sell. Paint it Resale Red and you will have 20 bidders.
A hood would also go a long way towards improving your chances.
When I did a frame off restoration on my WWII jeep, people would ask what it cost me when it was done. I told them I had no idea, which was true.
My wife, would then print out the spreadsheets.
I agree with Andy. My first thought was, "the car looks unfinished without a hood."
Keep trying - it only takes one yes...