How do you lift the rear differential?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: How do you lift the rear differential?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:08 am:

Scott C. was kind to advise me NOT to lift the differential like in the picture. So what is the proper way to lift the rear?

I was raising it by putting the hydraulic lift directly under it.

Thank you in advance for your response.

Bob
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/770905.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:11 am:

Jack up one end near the wheel and place a jack stand under it. Then move the jack to the other side and repeat. The weakest point in the rear axle is the center, especially on the older "clamshell" type. If you are going to remove the rear axle from the car, use large jackstands under the frame just in front of the radius rods. Then lower the rear axle to slide out.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:16 am:

I suggest that lifting just the axle as shown is fine, but the Model T rear axle began weak in 1908, and was modified progressively to 'adequate' from 1916. The one shown is earlier. I would not jack the whole car like that.
It's fine to lift the whole car at each side of the axle, under the half-shaft outer bearings.
You can also lift the chassis at each side, and there were devices which could be hooked into both sides of the chassis, a bit like a tow-bar, to allow a chain lift to be used on the centre-line, behind the car. See here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/74983.html?1229035698


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:37 am:

I always place the jack as close to the wheel as possible, near the spring perches, when jacking up the car.

As Chris says the axle assembly by itself does not need the same care.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:43 am:

Bob

Sorry for not following through with the next obvious advice...ie: How it can safely be done. Folks above are giving you same advice that I SHOULD have.

regards


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 12:16 pm:

I find that there's not a lot of room for large floor jacks AND jack stands underneath there. When you jack one up with the intent of putting it on jack stands, you have to decide whether to jack inboard and put the jack stand outboard, near the wheel, or else do the opposite. Either one leaves the inboard device closer to the center than most "experts" normally are willing to say is OK. Have to wonder what they do. Small jack?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 02:04 pm:

This is where a Model T screw jack or a small bottle jack comes in handy. For the rear axle, place the jack under the backing plate casting as far outboard as possible. I always put a block of wood under the jack. Then place your jack stand as far outboard as possible and lower the axle and remove the screw jack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 03:56 pm:

Post Hi Jack!
A different question; how does one man remove the rear axle as an assembly with the driveshaft still attached without damaging any paint? I want to remove the standard large drum rear axle on my 27 coupe and replace it with a rebuilt large drum Ruxtell. Both rear axle have torque tube, driveshaft and rear radius rods attached to them. I've seen the special lifting device shown in the Ford Service manuals, but I don't have one (I doubt many do).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 04:35 pm:

I think I recall that the car will just balance with the front wheels on the ground if you support the chassis as far aft as possible, but with the stands (good stable stands) forward of the rear radius rods. The brake rods have to removed, and you do need to remove the rear wheels to avoid having to lift the car high. The axle can be lowered onto a low trolley (a creeper?) or some boards, and dragged back and out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Monday, July 10, 2017 - 11:41 pm:

TerrySome time ago I broke my left axle in my Depot Hack. I was luck that I could use the shop crane to lift the body. Put is on stand and the dropped (CAREFULLY) the axle out on a furniture dolly The stands were two old 30's axles housing for way back when, they worked great.
I re-installed the rear-end by myself and I am 83. Believe me all the tugging a shoving and pushing took a severe toll on this old body.
So be really careful as they can slip or move very easy.
I recall that Steve Jelf has a beam and stands that look really great and check him out and he may give you some pointers. I met him 4 years ago and he is a great fellow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Rosenthal in Cincinnati Oh on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 10:57 am:

I would not lift a T by the rearend like this. The clamshell rearend especially, center section materials of construction are inherently weak, where a breakage is one possibility, another being permanent axle misalignment. Many here who have rebuilt rearends describe how many rebuilds require housing straightening. I'm not the expert, but I'll question whether this lifting technique is not responsible for some of those damages.
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 02:49 pm:

Bob, in case you didn't see it my lifting method is here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/708324/768889.html?1499777266.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 03:35 pm:

This is Steve's arrangement


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Poane on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 - 07:18 am:

I like it! I'll either make one sturdy out of wood or have one welded. Thank you! Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 - 11:22 am:

With a rear axle, such as Steve's above, with a non-riveted differential case, lifting in the center is perfectly fine. I would however consider lifting from each side of center, the riveted rear end shown in the initial posting link.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 - 11:27 am:

Here is the one I made from some pressure treated 4/4 post stock I had lying around. You definitely need to bolt it securely to the jack base like Steve did so that it can't fall over when pushing the jack around. :-)

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 - 11:34 am:

Mark - Did you use a hole saw to fashion the cradle in the 4x4s? Bandsaw?

Remember the dimensions you used?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 - 12:29 pm:

Here’s mine, dimensions are cross beam 29 “ long. Uprights are 4.5” high. 3/4” plywood 12” x 6”. Cut a shallow groove in the uprights to locate the axle tubes. Secured to jack with two 5/16 bolts. Holes were drilled and tapped in the jack plate to accept the bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 - 12:45 pm:

Jerry is probably right, but I'll stick with the two-point adapter. If anybody wants to try it, the materials are 1½" heavy gauge square tubing and 3" channel. The heavy gauge may be overkill, but I don't worry about it bending. :-)


Inner tube padding.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 - 01:00 pm:

Jesse - It was kind of a real-time backyard job.

I used my largest hole saw (3 inches) to cut a hole in the stock that I used for the uprights, then cut the stock in half right down the middle of the hole.

The hole was still too small to cradle the axle tubes properly, so I used a hand saw to cut off the sharp corners of the pockets.

I didn't really measure anything, except to make sure that the uprights would support the axle tubes and allow minimal clearance for the center section. Whatever stock was left after cutting the uprights, that's how wide I made the cross member. I attached the uprights to the cross member with 3 inch drywall screws (after pre-drilling the holes for the screws).

I actually like Bob's design with the notched plywood end plates better, no hole cutting and corner trimming required.

:-)

(Message edited by cudaman on July 12, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer - Arroyo Grande, CA on Thursday, July 13, 2017 - 01:18 pm:

The picture below shows a broken axle housing that came out of my car. It's the 13-14 style differential.

I don't know the exact cause of this broken casting, but it certainly attests to the fact that they're not super strong.

Jacking out near the wheels is good advice. Jacking on the pumpkin may be OK for some more modern cars, but not for a Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 11:29 am:

Thanks for the ideas, fellas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brass TT on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 10:05 pm:

DICK FISCHER - From the angle of distortion and direction in relation to the torque tube, I would suggest that if this happened whilst in a car, it would be from either a rear-end impact, or from perhaps being shunted around in a wrecker's / scrap yard ? and not from lifting on a jack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer - Arroyo Grande, CA on Friday, July 14, 2017 - 10:35 pm:

Brass TT,

I probably should have explained more when I posted the picture. The two parts, as positioned, are just loosely set together at an angle to make the fracture more apparent for the photo. They don't actually represent any particular direction of distortion.

The original plan was to drill out all the loose rivets and install new rivets. But when the rivets were drilled, the casting just fell out of the tube in two pieces. That's when we knew we were in big trouble.

We did experiment with setting the two pieces back together to get an idea what the direction of force might have been. The angle of distortion is pretty small, but it looks like it might have been loaded from the rear and below the center line.

I didn't mean to infer that the failure was for sure due to jacking on the pumpkin. Just wanted to show that the assembly is subject to breakage and should be treated tenderly.

BTW, one of the other forum members sent me photos showing two of the same type housings that are in the process of being repaired by welding. So the failure isn't especially unique. Luckily, I found a decent housing at a reasonable price and didn't have to get into a welding/machining operation.


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration