I thought I should start a new thread.
I just heard from an official (management) at OCF.
As they promised, they have given top priority to the parking situation so potential participants can plan accordingly.
Everything is in place to solve the issue and you should be receiving details from THF tomorrow.
Again, I hate to be coy, but the details will have to come from THF.
Look for them tomorrow!!
Marty, Thanks for the update.
I'm interested to see what they've come up with.
Hopefully I'm not stealing any of Marty's thunder (thunder is overrated anyhow).
I was told I could share the following:
"...at any of the designated parking areas, anyone who plans to stay in their vehicle, or rv trailer, etc., will be free to do so. Essentially a return to our past practice."
"...we are not limiting bikes, those who meet the registration criteria will be accepted."
Peter,Your right it's the lightning that matters!I was told a parking lot on Oakwood had been found? If true Oakwood would work very well! Bud.
I'm glad to hear things are working out for the OCF, after all, I'm flying out from California to attend, and staying at the Dearborn Inn too! I can hardly wait.
I talked with a fellow at a tractor show who had a 1919 barn find T for sale and he said the ocf was cancelled for this year.Go figure? Bud.
Sorry for the delay on this, but I'm also trying to get the T ready for a weeklong tour and we leave tomorrow (Sunday).
Anyway, I heard from my THF contact late yesterday that the plans are in place but they are dotting the "i's" and crossing the "t's" before the above mentioned letter to all comes out.
There is a huge lot on Oakwood and Rotunda Dr. Wonder if that's the one they have in mind
E-Mails back and forth to the Henry Ford but little actual info?? Bud.
As of this afternoon, some of the acceptance letters have gone out via e-mail. Several of my friends have received notification they're in.
My wife hasn't been notified if her car was accepted but my '16 is in.
I have not registered nor likely won't be able to. Not because of what has transpired because THF has certainly turned things around but, because of some other financial hardships.
We will try to be spectators for Saturday only, though......
It is costly to bring our car with all the added expenses. I have other expenses that take a priority over the OCF. It has been an expensive summer for us and we didn't even go anywhere!
Congrats to those that are going, though!
I was still wondering about tow rigg parking? I was told a lot was found on Oakwood but the promised info from the Henry Ford has yet to come forth.If we hear good reports maybe next year? Bud.
The online participation information can change at any time - check this link for the latest:
@ https://www.thehenryford.org/documents/default-source/default-document-library/2 017-old-car-festival-participant-information.pdf?sfvrsn=8
As of today:
" After check-in, vintage vehicles will enter Greenfield Village through the service road leading into the Village.
Tow/chase vehicles may enter the village through this gate, drop off supplies and equipment, and return to
the parking lot to park.
All modern vehicle parking will be in parking areas designated at check-in. We will be accommodating
overnight parking for campers and motorhomes. Parking map will be sent prior to Old Car Festival.
Modern vehicles of any kind are not allowed in Greenfield Village before 5:30 pm on FRIDAY, between
9:15 am – 9:30 pm on SATURDAY and between 9:15 am – 5:30 pm on SUNDAY.
Shuttle service will be available, schedule and information coming
UPDATED 7/17/2017 – Unpublished "
I'm excited. I just received notification that my 26 touring was accepted.
If the above is true, looks like the OCF is back to where it was before all the ruckus began. So what did they, THF, accomplish besides upsetting most of us?
Jerry,They thinned the heard but if parking is solved did i need thinned?? Bud.
Opp's,That should have read[it]!! Sorry for the mistake to all!
Let me just say that I'm not sure the very higher-ups were completely aware of the scope of the initial changes. When the results of the MM were in, the higher-ups were livid, incensed and told those that made those initial changes to make things right again.
Let's just be thankful that THF now knows the importance of both shows and are bringing things back to "normal".
E mails sent about tow rig parking but no reply! This reminds me of the story of the billboard that said [watch for it,it is coming May 24 every one has always wanted to see it!].May 25 the billboard was changed to say It's gone!! Bud.
If the "very higher ups" weren't aware of the changes to MM and OCF that were implemented by their subordinates, then they must not have bothered to read the letters sent to them in January of this year by past participants who were upset by the changes.
More specifically, I know of letters that were addressed to multiple individuals including Patricia Mooradian as well as certain members of the board.
Clearly, the most senior individuals at THF knew what was going on, but they obviously didn't care that past participants were upset as they had convinced themselves that notwithstanding the changes and upset participants, the MM and OCF would each go on as planned with plenty of participants.
It was only after the MM flop that they sat up and took notice of past participants concerns, and then started reversing direction.
I completely agree! Well, said!
Can't wait. Got my ok yesterday. Great event.
I have been following this situation from day one as I hope to attend this event one day.
The negativity expressed on this forum as a result of the changes (now reversed) is alarming. Unless you have a time machine I suggest you move forward...
Kudos to those that took the high road and implemented positive action to affect the reversal of the changes.
Great event?? This year i'm not so sure.Yes there will be many nice cars probably not as many as in the past but it will be better than none!Myself i really enjoy the very early cars and the ones seldom seen anywhere else.The Lansing to Dearborn run brought in many of such cars and the knowledgeable people who own and drive them.Move forward sounds great but unless you have seen what it once was you might never know? Myself when some were looking for a event/or place to hold a new or replacement event it amazes me that they folded their tent so quickly? New's flash,no more like farts in the wind.Bud.
I am sorry that you find my perspective regarding this matter alarming. If my posts regarding this matter upset you, please do not read them.
If by chance you are still reading this post, I wish to point out it's possible that had you been a participant in the past, as opposed to a casual observer, you might have a different view.
Contrary to your understanding, all the changes have not been reversed. Moreover, to the best of my knowledge parking issues are yet to be resolved.
I believe you are misplacing your kudos. THF is not making the changes because of those that have taken the high road and implemented positive action. Rather, THF is making the changes precisely because of the past participants who voted with their feet and ignored the Motor Muster and failed to register for OCF.
While my perspective may well be in the minority among those posting regarding this matter on the MTCFA site, I am aware of many early brass era car owners who were past participants who will not be participating in this year's OCF. What happens next year and beyond is anybody's guess.
Had THF approached the matter differently at the outset, and without the arrogance, the vast majority of the disharmony could have been avoided. Instead THF in so many words told past participants that they didn't want to be known as a car museum, that the MM and OCF were each a big hassle for them, and they could make more money with less effort with weddings. In summary, it was my way or the highway.
A great many individuals opted for the highway.
The latest from THF OCF site:
"All modern vehicle parking will be in parking areas designated at check-in. We will be accommodating
overnight parking for campers and motorhomes. Parking map will be sent prior to Old Car Festival.
Shuttle service will be available, schedule and information coming soon."
If you would like to communicate with THF on the matter of parking:
FOR MORE INFORMATION
Program Registration Office
The Henry Ford
P.O. Box 1970
Dearborn MI 48121-9843
Participant Information updates: www.thehenryford.org/participants
I can't really disagree with anything you stated in your 12:32PM posting. However, while what you say may be true, it does not dissuade me from wanting to participate in OCF this year. I was not, however, planning to participate until changes were made. Their motivations for change do not matter to me. I see no reason to be punitive. But, that's just me...
Thanks for the update regarding parking. The parking information does however imply that parking will be offsite. This could be an issue for those who wish to bring brass cars that do not have electric lights. As you can appreciate, driving a brass era car on public streets back to a trailer after the gas lamp parade on Saturday evening is not very attractive to most with such car owners.
The purpose of my posts are not to discourage participation. Rather they are merely to keep the record accurate.
For anyone to suggest that the senior management of THF did not know about the changes that John Neilson had instituted is a stretch. According to THF's website, one of John's responsibilities is to generate increased revenue from THF's various venues. With this in mind, John's actions, as misguided as they may have been, were arguably in keeping with his job responsibilities.
The point about gaslight cars being on the road at night was raised with Ms. Mooradian. The suggestion was to reserve any possible on-site parking for the earlier cars. We'll see what they come up with.
Well, this whole parking situation is still unclear to me! At the moment, I have not registered but, debating with myself as if I should try to make a go of it? I leave our car in the village overnight and we walk to our SUV with flatbed trailer. It has always been quite a walk in past years. We then drive our modern vehicle with trailer back to our hotel. I am in no way going to drive our antique car back to offsite parking, strap it down again (in the dark) and head to our hotel! Only to unload it Sunday morning for 8 hours or so! If that is the case I am definitely leaving the old car at home!
I need to know now, if there is offsite parking, that a shuttle will be taking us back to our modern vehicle by 9pm? I suppose I can register our car and if this parking situation is still unclear, we won't be bringing our car since the registration is free this year only. This is why I feel it's getting to be more trouble than it's worth. Otherwise, we will be content to see old friends and all the other old vehicles that I would not otherwise see.
This is just from my view.....
THAT is what matters most to folks driving tow vehicles and motor homes from a greater distance.
THAT is what has still not been SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED by THF.
Some participants last year noted parking difficulties that seemed to come about because
WEDDING(S) had been scheduled for the same weekend as the OCF.
With (6) weeks left - almost one year later - THF is once again suggesting that WEDDING(S) may be scheduled for the same weekend as the OCF.
This - despite a reduction in available parking spaces.
No disrespect to those participants living in relatively close proximity to THF who see concerns expressed over the last (9) or more months as being " Negative " ....
You are not driving a towing rig and/or a motor home hundreds or even thousands of miles to an event where SPECIFIC PARKING ACCOMMODATIONS have not been made just a few weeks from the event .....
Call the number I posted above or use the email link. Telling us that you need to know won't get you your answers. Hope you can make it!
"THF is once again suggesting that WEDDING(S) may be scheduled for the same weekend as the OCF."
Where did you read this???
BTW, I live 20 minutes from THF and I have used a trailer for the past 15 years or more. I won't this year in hopes of leaving a space for someone who must.
On July 19th I posted this link on this thread:
@ https://www.thehenryford.org/documents/default-source/default-document-library/2 017-old-car-festival-participant-information.pdf?sfvrsn=8
From that link for the first time dated July 17th:
" We will be accommodating
overnight parking for campers and motorhomes. Parking map will be sent prior to Old Car Festival. "
Has anyone received a parking map to date ?
From that link:
" There may be weddings on Friday or Saturday evenings in the Martha-Mary Chapel with receptions in Eagle
Tavern and/or Lovett Hall. Although Old Car Festival is the primary event taking place in Greenfield Village,
there may be of other uses of The Henry Ford’s venues. We ask all of our participants to be conscious and
courteous with each other.
The safety of participants, guests and staff is our number one priority. "
Participants from last year noted parking problems they had not necessarily experienced in past years - it was noted parking was difficult because of wedding(s).
THF states clearly in earlier written policy the desire to move away from car events towards more lucrative events - like weddings.
Last year THF scheduled wedding(s) the same weekend as the OCF ...
Perhaps because they could make more $$$$ .... ????
They may have done it in previous years - but last year it created parking problems for participants in the OCF.
So - knowing that available parking will be even less this year - they go ahead & evidently ( by their own written admission ) schedule wedding(s) again.
So - the promise of parking for motor homes & campers & tow rigs is offered for the first time on July 17th ( see revision date on link ).
With six weeks until the OCF .....
NO SPECIFIC INFORMATION has been provided to OCF participants traveling from far distances how or where trailers - campers - motor homes will be parked ....
Do you think the prospective wedding guests for that weekend are worrying about where they are going to park their car ?
(Message edited by enclosed_ford_transport on July 25, 2017)
They are offering free admission and a promise of good parking so why not just sign up. You can always cancel if you don't like what they come up with. Same with the hotels. You can cancel late in the game at no charge. You might feel good standing your ground but, on that Saturday morning, it is then that you will regret that you didn't go.
Tim Kelly: I said "scope" of the changes. The majority of the changes have been reversed and then some: the fee is reduced; the deadline is extended; parking has been resolved (more on that in a minute); more and free wristbands; a "social event" for participants; etc.
THF made the changes for two reasons that I am aware of:
1. Let's get the first one out of the way and that is, of course, financial. As I've stated before, even non-profits have to make money to survive. Nothing wrong with that. When members threatened to drop and visitors wanted their money back, that sent a clear message.
2. Yes, THF made the changes for some of the reasons you mention (low MM participation, low OCF registration, etc.) BUT when management reached out and asked for meeting and got an (amiable) earful about different aspects of the events, they listened. They got a far different perspective of the events than the events just being another special THF event. THEN -- in my opinion -- they went above and beyond to make things right.
They also understand -- and said so -- that this years' participation at OCF will not be the same as in years past because of the changes they made and also, they recognize that past participants have made other irreversible plans. I believe they are doing everything they can -- and more -- to make participants and visitors happy.
Willis, Freighter Jim and, others take note, please.
Trailer/motor home/ camper parking: I probably shouldn't be saying too much and if I get in trouble with my friends at THF, then so be it, but I'm really tired of the naysayers.
My understanding is that high-level THF management met with high-level Ford executives to discuss the events and the parking situation. (To me, that alone says volumes about the sincerity of THF). Together, they pretty much resolved the situation. THF now knows most campers and motor homes don't need utility, water or, plumbing services. From what I understand -- and I'm probably saying more than I should -- parking will be relatively close by. Shuttle services will be provided. For the Saturday night Gaslight Parade police escorts will be provided for those wishing to take their cars back to the parking areas. I do not know exactly where the parking will be.
Last years parking was a mess. That was the fault of two things. First, staff did a terrible job of supervising it and, second, consequently thoughtless people parked their stuff anywhere without regard to others.
(Freighter Jim please note the following)
Weddings: They have always been held periodically on MM and OCF weekends and have never really presented a problem. And, again so what if THF is trying to make a buck???? Freighter Jim, I'll bet you don't work for free, do you?????
FJ have you been to or ever plan on bringing a vehicle to MM or OCF? If so, I encourage you to register and maybe that will change your glass-half-full attitude. If not, in my opinion, you have no room to complain.
I'm really, really tired of the naysayers. Go or don't go. It's, of course, your choice. I always try to see both sides of an issue. But given what THF is NOW trying to do, I don't understand the negative attitudes.
Respectively and with and an attempt at an understanding attitude,
Tim Rogers: Well said and that's the right attitude.
Looking forward to seeing you and others there. (I too will be there in a black Model T )
Well damm. Well said Marty. Go or don't go, it's their choise. The parking was great last year except for the last day. I was one blocked in but it wasn't a big deal. I saw a couple of other folks who were blocked in a little and had to move their own trucks just a little to load and go. I guess I'm used to living in a less than perfect world. Deplorable me. I cant wait to get there. I suppose some could volunteer and help out as parking lot host.
Well said, Marty.
We can't go this year as we made other commitments after the changes were first announced, but plan on being there again in 2018.
I'm glad all of our efforts were finally heard and THF is making the changes needed.
You mention that you are tired of naysayers. That's OK, it's your prerogative.
Nevertheless, I think most people would agree that it's OK for everyone to form their own opinion with respect to a matter. What makes you believe that everyone's opinions should align with yours?
Maybe it would be best for you not to read posts where you suspect that the views expressed will differ from yours.
Very well said Tim!! After attending 20 years in a row i feel i can step back if i want! Bud.
Yes, Tim, well said! After attending for 13 years in a row stepping back maybe what I need to do. I am very well aware that it is my decision and that I cannot learn anymore from discussing it here. Only time will tell for me......
I'm gonna say one more thing and I'm gonna quit commenting on this subject. I don't think anyone is actively trying to persuade anyone to NOT go. And I believe most everyone here would probably agree to disagree, if it weren't for the continued worshiping at the alter of THF. It's one thing to say "Hey, they've come around. Let's go give'em another shot. It'll be like old times." But it's quite another to keep having it rammed down your throat how great THF is for bending over backwards to try to satisfy a bunch of non-deserving participants that really should have been "Blacklisted". Those kind of posts prompt others that don't believe THF is worthy of the praise to say so, and then THEY get labeled as naysayers. It's a vicious cycle.
Thank you Hal!! I hope those that go have a wonderful time and everything reverts to the past!!Bud.
I truly believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Don't get me wrong. NO ONE has to -- nor should they -- align my opinion with theirs. It would be a boring world if there were not differences of opinion. No one enjoys a good, reasonable debate more than me.
I dunno. Maybe I'm too much of a Pollyiana sometimes. What I'm having difficulty understanding is why some folks can't see the upside of this, forgive and forget, move on and have fun.
Again, go or don't go. Your choice. If any of you go and see me, please say HI. If you decide not to go, well, I'll miss you this year.
I've just created a profile so that I can answer some of the questions and concerns directly on behalf of The Henry Ford. I will say that I cannot comment on what transpired previously, I have been asked to move things forward and that is what I am doing.
Parking for the vast majority of the big rigs and trucks and trailers will be a short distance from our campus down Oakwood toward the Southfield. The site is directly across from the entrance to Beaumont/Oakwood hospital and it is the former site of the Lincoln Mercury HQ building...it's a really big lot.
We are working to provide;
security around the clock and
what will essentially be a concierge tent to answer questions, call for repairs if needed and likely to deal with check in for people assigned to that lot. We are still working on the details of doing check-in in multiple locations.
There will be a continous shuttle service that will be handicap accessible and we are working on plans to provide escourts for vehicle after dark, or for those uneasy about rolling in modern traffic
Lansing to Dearborn will be staged in the Eagle Tavern parking lot, this will also be the parking area for our judges and narrators.
There will be fairly limited parking behind Henry Ford Museum and what is now our property near the Ford complex. This area will be used by bicycle owners and others whose vehicles have limited mobility.
Overnight "camping" is perfectly fine in all of the parking areas.
If you have not already, or are on the fence, please register your vehicles. If you are at all unsure how to do this, please call Kristi Best 313-982-6058 or Odelle Cadwell 313-982-6100 ext.2086. They will get you through the process.
We are also plannig a casual Friday evening gathering for all the pariticpants at the Village Pavilion near the Village Green. We will have drinks and snacks and music by the Hotel Savrine Society Orchestra. Please plan on coming by after you have your vehicle settled.
We have an absolutely awesome program planned. For any of you who enjoyed the Ragtime Street Fair, we are resurrecting a version of it in the midst of OCF, we will have WWI doughboys, a 1920s area with music and dancing, and we are working on a GAR reunion vignette set around 1910. We will also have live blues music at the Mattox house along with a selection of "rustic" farm trucks. Fireworks are back, and we are going to end Saturday night's festivities with a Dixieland Style parade to the exit gates. Whew!! Please register, you will be sad if you miss it. Thanks to all for your support.
I really wish I was in a position to consider going there. Era styles of music and my favorite eras of cars!
Thank you especially Marty B. And the many others that have made efforts to iron this out and get it back on track. I hope to be able to get there some day. It will be interesting to see how this gathering progresses for the next several years.
Also, thank you James Johnson, for updating those that can go about some hopeful solutions to past problems.
Wow. A society orchestra, ragtime, dixieland, and blues! Along with a few hundred model T era cars, I wouldn't know where to be!
It used to be even better when they would start Old 16 and drive it all over the Village!!
Thank you James. It's starting to look like it will be the best OCF ever.
Thanks for posting Jim.
Really wish we could go now that things have turned around, but my wife turned her vacation time back in before this all happened. Crap!!
Well I am still VERY, VERY happy to see that THF has taken steps to bring back and revitalize the OCF. For a while there I was worried that it was as good as dead and gone. For me, I will just have to look forward to OCF 2018.
Thank you James.
We appreciate your information and assistance in keeping everyone informed.
Freighter Jim- What car were you going to bring this year? What car have you brought in years past?
While I can not attend this year, I applaud all of the efforts that Marty and others on this forum have done to help the problems with OCF. The hobby thanks you for this.
I really thought that the changes made were The Henry Ford's scapegoat to discontinue the event. Nice to know that I was wrong.
Kenneth, several years ago now, following its check-up after being run at Old Car Festival, small existing but stable stress cracks in the piston heads (which are massive) appeared to be less stable, it was decided at this time to retire Old 16 from being operated.
Yes sir i know that but i still have hope-someday.I have always thought anything could be fixed by people.Bud.
For those of you that thanked me, there really is no need. But, thank you.
I said thank you to James R Johnson! Bud.
James R Johnson is the Curator of Historic Structures & Landscapes ....
" Jim has been with The Henry Ford 38 years. During this time, he has been devoted to research and development of a wide variety of historic public programs. Jim welcomes the challenge of overseeing more than 80 historic structures across the campus, and would be hard pressed to pick a favorite, though Menlo Park and the Logan County Courthouse rise to the top. "
From @ https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/about/collections-experts/
Kenneth, I was referring to, at least Ron McWillie and Wayne Sheldon.
If i remember i said thank you to MR James Johnson who actually provided facts!!I do not recall typing anything to you!
Well Gee Kenneth, I counted SIX people who thanked Marty in this post for all of his efforts & he was considerate enough to acknowledge them!
Make that seven. Thanks Marty for the early and constant positive push.
Your post indicates "Lansing to Dearbon will be staged in the Eagle Tavern parking lot." Does this mean that The Henry Ford has repaired relations with the tour organizers? The HCCA website still has the tour listed as departing from and returning to Dundee, MI with a third day of touring. due to changes at the OCF. Are you just offering parking for Lansing to Dearborn participants who opt out of that third day of touring?
I was planning to attend both events this year, but opted to camel my plans due to the dissolution of the link between them. For me, hauling my '08 Maxwell twelve hours from home made sense, only if able to participate in both events.
I will consider participating in the future, but the latest policy changes, while favorable, come too late for me to change my vacation plans again this year.
Eric you can ride a "camel" during the event if you like. I think your Maxwell would be more enjoyable though.
Eric Hylen-Yes Lansing to Dearborn is back in the fold. They are participating as part of OCF. It likely will take some time to get updates done on the various websites, etc.
Thanks, for responding. I'm glad to hear that the relationship with the Lansing to Dearborn Run has been repaired.
It's too late for me to renew plans for this year, but I will start looking ahead to 2018.