OT? - Is this to be our Fate??? Banned - 'Internal Combustion Engines'

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: OT? - Is this to be our Fate??? Banned - 'Internal Combustion Engines'
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 04:23 pm:

Have just read this.....
"The UK is now on board with not having internal combustion engines. Just like their French neighbors, the BBC reports the British government has intentions of banning fossil fuel-powered vehicles sales by 2040. Both countries are doing it for environmental impact as air quality is worsening in major cities.
But they aren’t the only countries strongly in favor of zero-emission vehicles. Norway is the world leader of electric car sales and is planning to be free of internal combustion engines by 2025. China and Germany aren’t far behind."

Does that mean the imminent demise of Model T's (and all their like or successors) plus the corner gas station by 2025, or even 2040?
Phasing in?
Isn't there drilling for petroleum still happening in the North Sea?
Is 'the future, and Big Brother' lurking just around the corner?

Wanting to know, just not 'Alarmed'...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 04:46 pm:

Model T s will be 'Great Granfathered' exempt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 04:51 pm:

Electric lighting replaced these a hundred years ago in most of the country.


Can I still buy fuel for them? Yep. It's more expensive, but I can still get it. I expect it will be the same for old cars. Without today's mass sales, the fuel will cost more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen, South Texas on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 04:51 pm:

That's the UK. Won't happen in the US in my life time. We're too spread out. Can you imagine paying $100 to mail a letter? How about $20,000 for a refrigerator? We'll all go back to living in grass/mud huts or caves because no one will be able to afford to buy anything that needs shipped. Year-round food at a grocery store will be nonexistent. You'll have to grow your own. Large population centers will die out and most people will have to share-farm to survive.

The idiots that think we can be mobile on electric alone must think it grows on trees.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steven miller on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 04:51 pm:

when cars were first introduced they were propelled by one of three choices.
Gasoline, steam or electricity. Gas won out (that time)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 05:01 pm:

Even Henry owned an electric car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 05:47 pm:

By that time, "Climate change" and "Global warming" will be old hat and the new fad will be something else. When I was in 6th grade my teacher said we were about to enter another ice age. Later there was the "population bomb". There is always a new scare or new craze and each generation has someone who comes up with something else. Many years before Columbus there were those who thought if you sailed very far from shore, you would sail right off the earth! They weren't smart enough to realize if that had been true, the water would have run off and there would be no ocean!

Anyway, I won't be here long enough to worry about it, and I have found that most of the younger generation is not interested in antiques anyway. So the hobby would probably fade out even if gasoline were still available'
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 06:02 pm:

Just because you ban the sale of something doesn't mean folks won't quit using it.

Which reminds me, I have a large supply of incandescent light bulbs that will certainly outlast me.

(Also, this morning, I purchased a dozen GE 150W indoor BR40 incandescent floods for my parents at a estate sale for $2.00. This type of bulb is actually still being manufactured but most places don't carry them.)

(Message edited by Erik_johnson on July 29, 2017)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Doris, AZ on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 06:39 pm:

I too recall the pending ice age scenario when I was in grade school as well. I can still purchase incandescent bulbs for my dimmer fixture lamps. Weren’t these to be banned by now? As per Steve, one can easily find lamp oil and burn it in their lantern or lamp.

I’m with Norm on this one. Won’t be around to worry about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 06:54 pm:

In the U.S., there was a phase-out of standard 40W, 60W, 75W and 100W incandescent bulbs but there are many exceptions such as rough service bulbs, three-way bulbs and speciality bulbs.

However, many retailers don't carry the allowed incandescent bulbs so certain bulbs are hard to find (like the indoor floods I mentioned in my prior post).

The standard 40W, 60W, 75W, 100W are the bulbs that I stocked-up prior the phase out of each.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 08:31 pm:

In the fifties, I spent weekends at my grandparents' house. They had Reader's Digests from the forties. I remember in 1955 reading an article from 1945 that predicted that, in ten years, no one would be driving cars any more and everyone would be flying around in personal aircraft. It's now 72 years after that article and I still don't have a personal aircraft.

Oh, and I got my last box of 60W bulbs from Amazon a year or so ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 08:56 pm:

People are pushing for electric vehicles without realizing that it usually takes combustion of carbon based fuel to generate the electricity that then charges the batteries of the electric cars which then are discharged to run electric motors on the wheels. There is an energy loss at each phase of the energy transfer making electric cars highly inefficient and polluting unless recharged from wind/solar/or hydroelectric. Just because they don't pollute at the tailpipe doesn't mean they don't add to global pollution. The other problem is that our roads are built and maintained based on taxes on fuel. When you plug in your electric car in your garage, you pay no road taxes. I don't think the taxman will take long to figure that out! My friends in federal DOT are already discussing it. I believe my children will be able to drive the T's for a long time. Gas may cost more but so will electricity, food, and everything else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 09:04 pm:

Electric cars might make sense in England where no one is going to drive very far. But electric cars just aren't practical in the US. Way too many people drive way too far way too often, and electric cars just flat out do not have the range. Unless there is a radical development in battery technology, the range just isn't going to improve much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 09:17 pm:

Noel, I commented years ago that the Chevy Volt should actually be called the Chevy Lump, since it was a basically coal-fired vehicle. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 09:28 pm:

A few have touched on what was my first thought when first reading this thread,.....the size difference between U.K. countries and the U.S.A.! One of many interesting things I learned about England last time I was there, is that there is no place in England further from the ocean than 70 miles! Hmmm,....how far is Topeka, Kansas from the Atlantic, the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico? Yep! U.K. and U.S.A.? "Apples and oranges"!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 09:48 pm:

No fossil fueled powered vehicles? Until there is a alternative for heavy duty stuff like 50 foot semis, bulldozers etc. these folks will have to go back to living in caves. Do they think we can farm tens of millions of acres to feed the planet with electric tractors?
PS-Read a few years ago that France is 90% nuclear powered,. Problem is they are storing hundreds of thousands of spent nuclear rods each year in caves underground and have no technology to make them inert for thousands of years. One huge earth quake and there goes the water supply for the next 10 thousand years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Saturday, July 29, 2017 - 10:19 pm:

England is the home of over regulation. They just can't sit still and watch people enjoy life without finding new ways to aggravated them. The french are worse still in this regard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 06:29 pm:

I assume everyone reading this forum will always be able to get gasoline, as said best above at some cost. I travel 1 to 3 hours a day one way depending on which location I need to work in..for my job... I couldn't use a electric car and don't care to own one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 06:56 pm:

The way the fing world is going we may not be here in 2040 or sooner. If that little RAT in North Korea is going he is going to try an do the USA in to ash. and take over the world.
However his world may be coming to an end if he keeps going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SEE HOW MANY AGREE!!!!!!!!





P in Korea


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 07:33 pm:

If North Korea's leader docent behave I assume the current administration will have to make decisions. None of which the world needs but nor do we need his ICBMs landing warheads in California or NY. He is pushing like a bully but I am not sure they have the military might to back up his crazy talk or nutty actions.... He needs a hobby! Or a 15 hour a day job!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ivan on Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 07:49 pm:

The so called ban on internal combustion engines is just a ban on new vehicles. It would take a pretty defiant govt to ban millions of existing vehicles overnight.
Anyway, it is not likely to happen - can you imagine the banks of batteries required to power a 30/40 ton truck ? If you can't have cars you can't have trucks !
Perhaps we can all have a horse and cart ? No, the horses farts are banned too !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 08:47 pm:

Yes .....

I just put a down payment on a team of Clydesdales & new Studebaker freight wagon .....



Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By The Head Light Lens Guy in California on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 01:33 am:

It seems you'll have missed the news. The governor or California has us on track to be carbon neutral by 2040. In other words we will not be using gasoline. I plan to be driving my T with ethanol. Ford was a big proponent of ethanol in the teens knowing that gasoline would lead to many wars. Maybe he will finally have his way:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 08:59 am:

Headlight guy: Try Methanol it has more power!
To the Europeans: There is no such thing as an emissions free vehicle. You must generate the electricity with something and solar and wind isn't that viable YET! Oh I forgot you want to have your citizens stay up all night peddling a generator so they can drive their car 15 KM the next day and solve the obesity problem at the same time. By the way all orbits decay and as a result the earth is getting closer to the sun we will get warmer and the planet will die just not in my lifetime! EOR.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 09:40 am:

The United States has adopted the motorcar as it's prime method of travel; we didn't invent it, but we made it practical. The UK adopted the railroads as it's prime method of travel over land. Britain also has lots of coal for power generation. Switching to electric cars would be far less difficult for them then for us. It is of course possible that a method of very rapidly and repeatedly charging automobile power cells will be developed, or perhaps a standardized quick-change battery might come into use.
In 1960 if you had told me that pay phones would essentially be gone and we would do virtually all of our communicating by two-way radio, I would have thought that you were nuts. Technological advances could change everything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leo van Stirum on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 09:50 am:

I heard the world population of whales is slowly recovering, maybe whale oil is an alternative if fossil fuels get banned....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 09:57 am:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Electric cars have been a play toy mostly for the rich ever since their dawn.

By contrast, gasoline cars have experienced the entire market spectrum in popularity and specialization with people from all income groups.

Electric cars are very good at what they do: so are gasoline cars.

The only way the former will replace the latter is through government force, driving up the people's costs, manipulating the masses by way of taxation and artificial markets, and attempting to usurp the people's unalienable rights.

Bad law is best ignored.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 10:00 am:

I'm with John C. on this. There are too many possibilities for future development to list. Personally, I think that the replacement of internal combustion by electricity is inevitable. I think renewable sources coupled with improved batteries and reduction of transmission resistance are the key technologies but heck, something I never heard of or imagined may pop up and take us there.

Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy my TT to the max. The sounds, the smells, and the slow ride are priceless!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 11:23 am:

When the power grid goes down along with the internet, the Amish will still continue on as usual. There's not one way to do anything. We only need to get the government out of the way.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 11:47 am:

The answer is fuel cell cars but they get "grouped" together with Tesla and other battery cars when they don't have the short range issues of battery cars nor do they need recharging off the grid and can easily go 300 miles on a small tank of fuel and then refill in a split second. Their motor is electric but they make their own as you travel. But the economic interests that run our country are too heavily invested in petroleum and entitlements to allow them to the market. It is what happens when we let politics and lawyers control technology. They have no clue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jesse L. Ashcraft on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 03:14 pm:

>>>People are pushing for electric vehicles without realizing that it usually takes combustion of carbon based fuel...<<<

It makes sense if you have solar panels on your house to charge the car, among other things. The vast majority of automobile trips are less than 30 miles from home (95%). I'm afraid the United States is about to get left behind in a green technological boon. I've said it here before but the money we spend on the military to guard the fossil fuel spigot in the Middle East probably makes the true cost of our gasoline $20 or $30 a gallon if not more.

I used to plant Canna in the spring, (hummingbirds love 'em) dig up some rhizomes in the fall and store over the winter months in a couple 5 gallon buckets in the basement. I noticed last year there were so much more Canna popping up than what I planted so this year, I didn't plant any.

Here are the volunteers:

Canna is a tropical plant and not only has it wintered over in Northern Kentucky the last couple years but it seems to be flourishing. It's overwhelmed the day lilies in the patch. In the Old Farmers Almanac of 2008, they speak of Canna being able to winter over in Hardiness Zone 7 (Tennesseeish) if it's heavily mulched. I live in Hardiness Zone 6a which is two grow zones North of 7. It's anecdotal you understand and maybe this will be the year we get the hard freeze in Cincinnati that kills all the Canna but I suspect this is what global warming looks like:

https://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 04:20 pm:

When electric cars can travel 300 miles non-stop, and then re-charge in 10 minutes (or 500 miles non-stop if charging takes longer), then people will buy them.
And not before.
Whatever the laws.

(It's hybrids that make no sense and only exist to 'cheat' the official economy tests.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Walker on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 05:18 pm:

I'm not sure who's paying for this, but interesting data. Backs up my premise the electric car is a play toy of the rich at the expense of Middle-Income America and the poor.

https://www.prageru.com/courses/political-science/war-cars


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 05:43 pm:

I expect electric cars will follow the pattern of other electrical devices, being expensive at the start but lowering in cost over time. I laid in a supply of 100 watt incandescent bulbs many years ago when it became obvious they were on the way out. Since then LED equivalents have been developed and their price has dropped to $18.53 for a pack of four. Their long life and stingy use of electric current has made them a better deal. The price of a new 1948 DuMont 20" TV set was $2495 ($28,000 in today's money). In 1974 I bought a calculator at Sears for about $60. Now I can buy a better one at Wal-Mart for a couple of dollars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 06:28 pm:

Nothing will replace the horse.... now you can go to the riding stable to see and ride/drive a horse.

In the future we can go to the driving range and drive the motor car that replaced the horse around a track.

Musical Group Rush in 1980 had concerns about the "Motor Law." Those concerns were expressed with the "Red Barchetta."


My uncle has a country place, that no-one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law
Sundays I elude the ‘Eyes’, and hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire, where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine –
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta, from a better, vanished time
Fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar!
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjNvjURS-s


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 06:58 pm:

I love listening to Rush--

as long as its the Canadien prog rock group as opposed to the "Limbaugh" type!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Magee on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

I'm with you, Dale W


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 10:33 pm:

The Amish will NOT Continue as usual!!! When the fuel to run their gen sets they will be in almost the same boat as us!! When the power grid goes off where will the Amish get their propane to run their refers??? Stepping in it will not make anyone understand Amish. Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 08:42 am:

Ahh the Amish. For years they have depended on water and the sun and the wind to to produce food and livestock. When the grid goes down, they will be getting power from water wheels, solar panels, and wind mills.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 09:38 am:

As a sailor trying to live on renewables is never going to happen. People love luxury and comfort, it isn't about cars its about heat and air conditioning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 09:42 am:

Actually the Amish (as Ken DeLong said) do use electricity, telephones, and sometimes other modern conveniences. Generators to run electrically-powered milkers and other power farm equipment is pretty much the norm. They also have telephones which are usually located on a pole at the base of the driveway. The Amish do not wish to be connected to the modern world out of fear of being corrupted. They still want to be able to call 911 if necessary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob from Nova Scotia on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 11:29 am:

Seth has it right. This would work in places like Europe. Small distances. Nobody has pickup trucks. Need something moved? Rent a truck. But not every place is the same. Not every technology will fit


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 12:25 pm:

About once a month we go to the Amish stores by Clare,Mi to shop.They have a very nice market with air conditioning and many large freezer/coolers.Close by they are building a large cheese factory.Many of the farmers pull a cart with a engine and hyd's so they can use semi modern farm equipment.Opp's i forgot the bakery where i'm sure they use wood stoves but you can order in advance by phone!Lot's of people hire out hauling for them and many use tractors on steel!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 12:41 pm:

I was once at an auction in Mio, Mi. and had to borrow an Amish fellas portable telephone.
He gave at me a "Who's the luddite now?" look before forking it over!


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