Failure to start

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Failure to start
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 05:53 pm:

A friend recently hit a "speed bump" a little too hard. His T will not start and had to be towed home. It will not even fire on any cylinder. Any ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 05:59 pm:

   By Kim R. Wynn on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 05:53 pm:
A friend recently hit a "speed bump" a little too hard. His T will not start and had to be towed home. It will not even fire on any cylinder. Any ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 06:36 pm:

Try pushing the coils back down in the coil box.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 06:41 pm:

I have that problem ----

Wait your talking about a T

Most likely electrical - push and pull gently on oll connections.
If that dosen't work it is time to use a VOM to look for electrical continuity


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 07:02 pm:

Have you looked under the hood to see if the motor is still there?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham on Monday, July 31, 2017 - 08:36 pm:

No mystery really. If an engine is in time, has spark at the plugs and an adequate mixture in the cylinders it will run. Remove any one of these simple factors and it will not. Given the bump, I too vote for coils becoming dislodged as most likely cause.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 07:49 pm:

Can't be getting fire somewhere. I vote for the coils.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Spencer Vibert - Granby ,CT on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 11:40 pm:

did the battery become disconnected


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 - 03:14 pm:

Kim,

Since several of us have stepped up to help you, maybe you could let us know how it's going?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 - 03:35 pm:

Jerry,

Since it's his friends T, quite possibly he hasn't heard back from his friend. The stepping up and helping is great on this forum. Sometimes mere minutes :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Thursday, August 03, 2017 - 03:53 pm:

Haven't had a chance to check some of the suggestions. I did check coils and most connections. We get an occasional spark at the plugs. The coils are not buzzing every time we attempt a start. I have ordered new electrical parts in case we find an open circuit in the wiring or even the switch. We are experiencing some "binding" in the ignition switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 03:45 pm:

Round two: We tighten all terminals as well as changed the terminal block out. Thee old one was very deteriorated and one screw would not stay tight. Checked all coil contact gaps and set them to .025". Burnished the contact buttons on the coils and verified coil box fingers were making contact. Now have one coil "buzzing". Made inadvertent contact with that p!lug wire and got "bit" hard. The other three coils are not "buzzing". We moved the good coil to another spot with no luck. My next step is to take the coils out of my roadster and transplant them. I have a new timer to install if anyone thinks that this would help. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 03:58 pm:

If the one coil which buzzes does not buzz in any other spot, I would suspect the timer. How are the wires between the coil box and the timer? Are all the connections good and are the clips at the end of the wires making good contact with the wires. Best way to have good contact there is to solder the wire to the clip. What kind of timer do you have? Depending on the type timer would be the things to look for, but at least the contacts and rotor should be clean. If the old roller type timer, it should be oiled with non conducting oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 04:08 pm:

I purchased a Tiger Timer from Bob's. I haven't installed as yet. I also tightened the coil box insulator nuts. With these symptoms, would transplanting my known good coils be suggested?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 01:39 am:

If the point gap was set to 0.025" on all coils without any other coil testing then it is likely that all coil need to be checked and adjusted correctly. The point gap may be a starting point for coil adjustment but really has little to do with the final correct adjustment.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 06:48 am:

That .025 point gap is for the spark plugs, not the coils.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 08:19 am:

I would put in those four known good coils. If they all work, your problem was the coils. If you still have only one buzzing, the problem is something else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 10:35 am:

James G.,
Sounds like Kim set the coils point gap. He wrote, "Checked all coil contact gaps and set them to .025".

I agree with Steve, put in four known good coils or have the originals adjusted correctly.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 11:00 am:

If you have another T which runs OK, try swapping all coils. If the other T doesn't run with the coils out of the one you are presently working on, you can be quite sure your problem is in the coils. If this T runs with the coils from the other T you can be confident that this T is OK but you have bad coils.

Do you presently have a lid on the coil box? Without a lid, any bump can cause the coils to raise and break contact with the button at the bottom of the coil. Not only should it have a lid but the lid should be pressing down on the coils. Likewise, the coils should be tight from moving back and forth. Sometimes a wedge behind the coil on the side away from the contacts will help keep the contacts in place.

That "bump" you hit is a very good sign of a loose electrical connection somewhere in the circuit. It could even be in the ignition switch, however, since it buzzes on one coil the switch is not likely to be the problem.

Something also occurred to me. You say it buzzes on one coil. I presume you had the switch turned to battery because it will not buzz on magneto. Did you turn the crank when you say it buzzes on one coil? It should only buzz on one coil at a time but when you turn the crank, it will buzz on the coils one at a time in the following order 1,2,4,3,1,2,4,3,1,2,4,3 etc. It buzzes on two coils per rotation of the crank but only one at any position of the crank and sometimes none at all. As the crank turns two revolutions for one turn of the camshaft. The timer is connected to the camshaft and so the rotor in the timer makes one complete rotation for each two rotations of the crank. As the timer turns the rotor makes electrical contact with the segments one at a time and in between segments, there will be no buzz. The wires connected to the segments will be grounded through the rotor as it pass by. So you can test the coils with the key on battery and ground the small wire connected to coil box for each coil. When the wire is grounded the coil will buzz.

I might have told you just what you needed to know, or I might be repeating what you already know. Anyway try grounding those wires one at a time. Best if you do so at the end which is connected to the timer or even better yet if you remove the cover off the timer and ground one segment at a time. That way you will test for continuity through the wires and the timer.

Hope this helps.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 12:45 pm:

I had key on battery and hand cranked. The coil for cylinder #2 buzzed consistency and "bit" me quite hard when I somehow made contact with the plug lead. The coil for cylinder #3 buzzed once or twice and then quit. I didn't swap coils around I. the box. There is no top \ cover on the box, but the first thing that I checked was to make sure that the coils were seated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 04:38 pm:

You need the top on the coil box. Since your first problem came when you hit a bump that is the first place to check. If the coils are at all loose, they could be making intermittent contact inside the box.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 05:31 pm:

Could have you have busted a motor mount? Is the oil pan bolt under the timer pointed up?? If a coil buzzes constantly you have a dead short somewhere!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 05:57 pm:


A continuous buzz on #2 is likely to be too long a bolt under the timer sticking up far enough to touch the bottom terminal. A continuous buzz on #3 can be caused by the timer control rod touching the top terminal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 09:41 pm:

Finally got back to work on my friend's T truck. All 4 coils are now working correctly. All buzzing in the proper order when cranking engine over by hand. I had to refurbish the coil box. Now problem appears to be carb flooding out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 02:11 am:

Could be float set too high, but more likely a leaking valve. What kind of carb, and what kind of valve?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Sunday, August 27, 2017 - 06:24 pm:

Got the "T" started today. I robbed the carb off my 26 speedster and installed on the truck. Ran rough for a few minutes as it flushed old gas out of the internals. The 95 year old owner and his son were ecstatic. Thank you all for your input. I needed others to agree with my thoughts as my mentor has been gone now for about 12 years. AGAIN thanks to all that responded.


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