Warford oil level

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Warford oil level
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland, Lambsburg Va on Friday, August 04, 2017 - 01:13 pm:

Does anyone know how much gear oil an old alum case warford holds?, on the new ones the Check plug is lower than fill
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, August 04, 2017 - 02:39 pm:

Good question and I wonder if the Layne guys have a recommendation?

Even at a level of 1 inch below the top of the lower threads of the fill plug the oil would be above or right at the top of the countershaft. This oil level should be adequate to provide lubrication to the upper shaft bearings. You know there isn't any oil seals on the input or output shafts of the original Warfords. A recent one that I took apart looked like it had been filled with grease instead of oil. I use the heaviest gear oil in mine.

Ed Archer told me about a neat trick to prevent oil from leaking around the shifter rods. Simply install a copper tube over the end of the rods. Works perfectly with the Ultra Black!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 01:57 pm:

No Warford guys want to say how much gear oil they use?
I guess just "Filler up to the top and what you don't need will leak out" lol

BTT


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 06:47 pm:

His question is a little confusing, does he have a new Warford or is it an original 2 or 3 speed aluminum case, in ether case would be up to bottom of fill opening. My original cast iron 3 speed took between 2 and 3+ pints as I recall, I just put in till got to level I suggested above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 07:24 pm:

Bump


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Rogahn - Davisburg, MI on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 09:54 pm:

I fill mine to the bottom of the fill hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randall Strickland, Lambsburg Va on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 10:03 pm:

Mark I said an old alum case,it's under,direct and overdrive,Aaron thats what I been doing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Sunday, August 06, 2017 - 10:41 pm:

I'm running a period cast iron Warford in my '24 Speedster.

My experience with gear lube (modern as used in rear axles) was that half or more would be lost out the shifter rods within 200 miles driving.

Since then I've mixed my own homebrew of approx 40% axle lube blended with 60% red sticky chassis lube. It flows, very slowly, at room temperature, quicker when warm, and the innards always seem to have a healthy coating of lube. Lubricant loss while driving is minimal.

I've used a similar goop in my 1912 KisselKar transmission, and for the same reason, for many years and have been pleased with the results.

A similar lube is available commercially Penrite calls theirs "Semi-Fluid Grease" and recommends it for vintage motorcycle transmissions.

Gene, I'm interested in Ed's trick of using a copper tube over the shifter rods to reduce leakage, but am having trouble understanding it could you please elaborate and/or post a photo? Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 02:03 am:

One day on tour Ed and I were talking and he told me about an idea he had used to stop oil leaks at the shifter rods.

Here are a few ways you could install a copper tube with a cap over the rods and attach it to the cover. It sort of depends how much work or if you have the tranny out of the car.

If you have the rods removed from the cover you can then counter bore the hole out to about 7/8" slightly about 1/8 or so deep and then glue the tube with a cap soldered on over the rods.

If you don't have the tranny out or don't want to remove the rods simply super clean all the oil and grease off the case around the rods. Using a length of copper tubing make several cuts about 1/8 to 1/4" wide around the end of the tube about 1/8 long. Bend these cuts to a 90* angle out like petals on a daisy flower. Cut and shape the tube over the rod and fit it so it mates nicely to the cover then determine the length of the rod add a bit for clearance and install a cap. Now your ready to glue the tube over the rod. I like to use Ultra Black but JB weld would also be OK if you prefer.
Now you have leak proof shifter rods enclosed in the copper tubes!

Somebody Please give me solution to keep the shifter rod from spitting oil out on the floor mat! Ya, I know don't drive so Fast....

Hope this helps and Thanks again to Ed! I know 6 people that are using this method so far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 03:14 am:

Thanks, Gene, for texting me those photos, they were a big help. I'm posting them below in case others want to have a look.

My earlier confusion stemmed from being in the house and only thinking only of the rods where they come out the front at the shifter rod.

This approach makes a lot of sense and as you say is similar to the external front main seal retrofit. We're off on a long Speedster roadtrip soon and will definitely cap these rods off first.





I just went out to the garages to have a look at my spare Warford and the one in my Speedster they are both cast-iron units and a little different from yours where the rods come through but it should still work out OK.

I have enough room to get at that area in the Speedster and can wedge the caps into place against that angle-iron crossmember (and of course also seal them to the Warford).

Thanks again!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Monday, August 07, 2017 - 06:50 pm:

Don't forget to plug the dedent spring holes on the side as well. Looks like the shift tower is open at the base? Might put a patch over that while your cleaning it up?

Thanks for posting!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Leach on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 12:24 am:

I may not remember correctly but I think Ed told me that he used two elbows to make a U shaped tube so the oil could be displaced to the other shaft when shifting. Otherwise the oil fills up the plugged tube & inhibits shifting ( hydraulics the plugged tube ) or pops the tube off. While we are on the subject of Warfords I have seen some cast iron Warfords bolted up to the T trans without the U/joint housing. Like a aluminum one is. What is done to compensate for the difference in shaft size 13/16" Vs 7/8"?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 12:33 am:

Well filling mine to the fill hole let it leak out untill its at its happy level


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 12:35 am:

The input shaft is welded up then machined to size is one way. Some in the past have just bolted the cast iron body up but because of differences in shaft size is hard on all the part, very loose fits.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 02:38 am:

Craig, You have a good memory! Your right Ed and I did connect the two together with two elbows BUT this is not needed. There is plenty of room for the rod to move in and out. He told me that he was thinking about the hydraulic effect too much.
With good preparation and fit the Ultra Black will hold up to a lot of force. IMHO...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 07:10 am:

For an 'out of car fix' The shifter tower could be reamed out and a thin walled bushing installed for the shifter rods to slide in. This will reduce the gap for the oil to escape. If the bushes are left long, a cup type welch washer can be used to seal the ends of the bushes.
I use this method to stop leaks around the open ends of the clutch fork shaft on alloy hogsheads. The bush is left protruding from the housing and a 5/8" welch plug is used to plug the end.

Allan from down under.


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