Gas shut off at carb.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2017: Gas shut off at carb.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 12:32 pm:

Got this 27 Depot hack with a holly nh and it has a replacement aftermarket glass bowl filter coming out of the tank and a guel shutoff at the line going into the carb.
My 28 War Wagon has a Holly nh carb with the brass bowl correct unit coming out of the tank and a fuel shut off in the line going to the carb at the carb.
My initial reading on these indicated that if I didn't shut off the fuel every time I parked, gas would leak from the carb.
I have never shut off the gas at the tank or the cab on the War Wagon and never leaked a drop of guel. The Depot Hack is dripping like crazy out of the intake/choke plate unless I shut off the guel.
Appears to be apples and apples to me. Why the significant difference? And is one or the other giving me signals that I need to address?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 12:39 pm:

Float level could be set too high. However, if it has a metal on metal float valve, there's a good chance it will slowly leak past. It's just not a perfect seal. I have shut off's on both mine at the carb and shut them off when parking for an extended period. I don't worry about it just to park and go inside a store or something like that, but I do shut them off when parking it in the shop knowing it will be days or weeks before I drive it again. I usually leave the hood up to remind me to turn it back on when starting it up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 12:44 pm:

As you know, gravity furnishes the fuel pressure to the carb - no fuel pump, (most Ts do not have an electric fuel shut -off), but rely on float "pressure" to stop the flow of fuel from the relatively higher tank to the lower carb bowl.

IN A PERFECT world, the shut off surfaces (seat and point (?) mate very nicely, and no fuel flows. Unfortunately, my world is not perfect and sometimes something "sticks", and fuel continues to drip - or worse, flow. Consequently, whenever I park the auto for an extended period, I do open the hood and shut off the fuel at the carb. (I barely fit under the chassis anymore.).

Does that help?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 12:45 pm:

Hal types faster :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 01:01 pm:

Robert I know you shouldn't have to shut off the fuel and the problem seems to have been addressed above. I turn my fuel off and let the carburetor run dry every time that way if something happens and I don't get to drive the "T" for a month or more I don't worry about the gas messing up the carburetor and it only takes a few seconds for new fuel to run into the carburetor and it starts easily. Around here I can get undiluted gas but I am not always near home when I get gas. JMHO!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 02:32 pm:

If the shut off valve used anywhere is a wedge type then it will eventually leak. Various lubes help but you have to fiddle with them at least every so often to keep them dry. I finally broke down and put a brass housing BALL type valve at the carb. It works very well to keep things dry. It is a quick quarter turn small valve and it is quick and easy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 02:52 pm:

John, I did the same thing. A ball valve is the way to go


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 04:16 pm:

You are very lucky. It "should" not leak when the engine is shut off. And it usually doesn't leak, but once in a while something sticks or a little dirt gets under the needle valve. It might not pour out in a stream but just a constant drip. Especially on a 27 with the high location of the gas tank there is a little more pressure than there is with the under seat tank.

Turning off the gas is a precautionary step, not always needed, but the alternative could be an unexpected leak.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 04:47 pm:

I'll cross my fingers and hope that breaking in this newly rebuild carb and the recent work we did on the fuel tank and lines in cleaning them will result in th drip being a rarity reather than the norm.

This would certainly explain why one apple drips and one apple does not. In both the War Wagon and the Depot hack, the tank is under the front seat similar to the previous years construction. But both are the same. Although the Depot Hack is 2" higher. Maybe it adds to the pressure. We'll shut off the fuel at the carb as a safety precaution for now.

Thanks to all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman, New Zealand on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 04:53 pm:

Cut off valve available from vendors fits nicely at the carb, and easy to access:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 04:58 pm:

Agreed Adrian.
That's one that I have, also....and it continually weeps...used EZ Turn, soap, even a little toothpaste to try to make the parts seat better.
As John R. posted,, John S. pictured, and oh, so many years ago Royce showed the small ball valves which don't seem to weep. One day I will install one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman, New Zealand on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 05:19 pm:

Hi David, that is sad! For me I have never had any problem, but then again I get 'weeps' from the oil taps that Timesaver cant solve either.

I guess that a good motto to have is:

If it works for you, then it works!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 06:24 pm:

If you need to shut off the fuel to keep the carburetor from dripping gasoline, the carb needs to be pulled off the manifold and fixed. -A few years ago, I had the very same issue. -After a while, I got sick of worrying that if I ever forgot to shut the valve, what was in the tank would wind up on the floor of my attached garage along with a vaporous potential of explosive proportions. -I bought a carburetor rebuild kit from Lang's and replaced the bad parts. -Not being rocket science, even this know-nothing newbie could do it. -Buy the kit, fix the carburetor and be done with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 08:48 pm:

That's fine. They should not drip, but unfortunately they can do so at an unexpected time. Usually the drip is not enough to cause a problem while driving, but after you park the car and after you have left it you will come back later and find out that it leaked. It is still a good precautionary measure to turn it off when you park.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 11:05 pm:

I run the cowl shut off valve and the metal in line shut off valves from langs and always turn at least one off. If I store the cars for more than a day I turn both off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 - 11:20 pm:

Many years ago I gave the oldest grandson a not correct 15 roadster. The last few years he has other thoughts on his mind so once a year I roll it out of the trailer and leave it in a corner of the barn. It has the same valve as Adrian has and it works very well. Once a year I add gas to start it and run it back in the trailer for storage. With this valve I never have to worry about the gas going bad as it slowly leaks away!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 12:12 am:

My elbow shut off weeps also. I'm switching to an in line shut-off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 05:29 am:

Another consideration is the size of the bore in these valves.
I have found some to be very small and cause low flow issues.
I use the ball valve type which has the largest straight through
bore.
Alan in Western Australia


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter B. Ratledge on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 07:13 am:

I am running a 5 ball carb on my 11. It has it's own mind. Sometimes it leaks and sometime it does not. I put on a ball valve brass housing shut off, like both John's did.I tried the ones like the vendors sell, but they are hard to turn off and on and tend to seep.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Blancard, Fredericksburg Va on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 08:12 am:

Anyone have a source/part number for the ball valve? Is it carried by the T vendors?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 08:45 am:

Steve,

Mine is a Legend T-1001 ball valve 1/8 inch. Should be available on Amazon or others

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Blancard, Fredericksburg Va on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 09:20 am:

Thanks John.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 09:35 am:

What is the correct diameter metal line for the fuel system from the tank to the carb. 1/4" or 5/16"? My local auto parts counter has both. Don't know if a larger than "standard" line would cuase excess fuel or pressure to the carb? Prsume it's got to get through the fittings and valves to get to the carb, but wondering if different size fuel lines would cause a issue?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer --- Klaaswaal NL on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 09:53 am:

Robert , I am happy with this one.
1099M
1102M
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eyssen - Abilene TX on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 02:22 pm:

I use a small ball valve from a lawn mower supply


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JD, Wichita, KS on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 03:07 pm:

Robert -
With a little adjusting of the float setting and "clean up" of needle & seat on your Depot Hack you will get it to stop leaking.
The stock Ford has 1/4" OD tubing.
I like to use the 5/16" OD pictured below.
Probably not necessary, but doesn't hurt either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 04:19 pm:

Problem solved. We did put in the 5/16" gas line because that is what the auto parts store had and I saw no downside in increased gravity gas flow. But the leaking had me worred.
Corey Walked walked us through removing the drain, and the inlet and spraying some car bleaner through the carb and checking the float. Reassembled, started and ran the engine, adjusted the rich/lean and it purrs like a kitten.
Shut everything off, left the shut off in the open position and no drips after several hours.
We will shut off and leave the hood open to remind us of that overnight as a safety precaution, espcially since the garage is directly under sleep quarters in the house.

Thanks to all. Hopefully others gained some good information on the shut off valves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel Snell on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 04:40 pm:

I just use the shut off at the sediment bowl as Henry designed it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Thursday, August 10, 2017 - 06:48 pm:

Robert, glad you posted back that you got it taken care of. Its nice to here peoples solutions as it helps others down the road.

My big beef with the ball valves at the carb, is that they don't even remotely look like they belong there. In my mind / opinion, even a modern brass taper seat valve looks better than a modern ball valve.

That said, and as mentioned, the taper valve will weep no matter what. For me, I just deal with it. When they start holding a drip, I relube with some EZ Turn and stops again. No big deal IMO.

Yes, you could do as Henry intended and use the sediment bowl to shut it off. But alot of times that's a pain, even with a turning device so you dont have to get under the car. For me, it is quicker to pop the hood and shut it off at the carb for short stops (anything within the same day). For extended non use (multiple days) or storage, I shut both the sediment bulb and shutoff at the carb.

I also shut the sediment bulb at the tank and run my carb out of gas once I park it in the garage. For me, I lift the floor board and reach under to shut it. Let it run, and once it stops, also turn the one at the carb off. I feel with these cars, you can never be too safe.

Again, all my opinion, but maybe someone will see this and agree or sprout a new idea for them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Olson on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 09:43 am:

When switching to 5/16" tubing, what fittings are used at the sediment bulb and carb. do you ream the originals to fit the tubing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 11:03 am:

We took everything to ACE and they fixed us up. Between compression fittings and non compression fitting, 1/4" and 5/16", we ended up with some sort of reducer on each end.

My primary concern was safety, no dripping, not period correct, so mission accomplished in that regards. I've got the rest of my life to go back and make it period correct, if I choose to do so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Olson on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 11:17 am:

Thanks Robert! Reducers are probably the best way to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 11:36 am:

I have no shut off valve at the carburetor. A ball valve from any local hardware store is very effective, but I hate the looks of the thing. So instead I made this adaptation of a set-up I saw on a neighbor's TT.


I don't have to crawl underneath to reach the shut off. I just kneel down beside the car and use the handle under the running board.


In this version up is on and down is off.


The business end is a sleeve made from a short piece of pipe clamped onto the valve handle. It swivels to accommodate the angle of the shaft.

This set-up required no alteration of any kind to the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 05:54 am:

The angle brass tap Adrian shows is the cheaper of two similar ones available. I have both. The cheaper one does weep just a bit, but not enough to concern me. It does get hard to turn if left for months. The second, dearer one looks even better, functions better and does not leak.
You get what you pay for.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 09:32 pm:

I've had good luck with the ones that Langs sells. They look old fashioned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Friday, August 18, 2017 - 07:59 am:

Yes, this style with a little bit of EZ turn fuel lubricant to keep it leak free and turning EZ is all you need.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/6055.aspx


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